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Your opinion about chart and DOM way


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Your opinion about chart and DOM way

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  #1 (permalink)
nikodine
Plovdiv/ Bulgaria
 
 
Posts: 10 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 8 given, 1 received

Hi guys,
What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all?
For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market?
So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?

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  #3 (permalink)
 xplorer 
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nikodine View Post
Hi guys,
What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all?
For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market?
So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?

A trader I know who used to trade CL and now trades mainly equity indexes does not use DOM/order flow at all and is extremely consistent.

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  #4 (permalink)
Fr33B1rd
Novi Sad Serbia
 
 
Posts: 13 since May 2018
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I know traders that only use price action and no DOM / depth at all. They say there is too much spoofing and iceberg orders for that information to be beneficial. If i remember correctly from the reading i have done, John Carter doesn't use any market depth in his trading and he's quite successful.


All the best,

Freebird

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  #5 (permalink)
 ClearLog 
Athens Greece
 
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Also have in mind what type of trading you perform is critical.
dom / orderflow is a requirement for scalpers and not so much for other type of traders..what do you think?

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Or in your example you meant that 2 scalpers going for 3 ticks on the ES . The first one successful with orderflow and the other one successful only chart trading?

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  #6 (permalink)
 bofh 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I personally use both. As a part of my morning/pre-market routing, I do use charts along with trend lines and fibonacci retracement in order to establish support and resistance levels, however, I do not use chart for entries and exits. For trade entries I use DOM/DOME in order to enter trades when there are large volume trades at bid and/or ask, as I am trying to capture the momentum upwards or downwards for 6+ ticks per trade.

This greatly depends on your style of trading and DOM only trading may not be for one person while being extremely profitable for another person. Really depends on your end goal.

--bofh

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  #7 (permalink)
 iantg 
charlotte nc
 
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Your right that it is madness to try to read the DOM in fast markets. Programmers will have a much better go at this than discretionary traders for the obvious reasons.




nikodine View Post
Hi guys,
What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all?
For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market?
So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?


In the analytical world there is no such thing as art, there is only the science you know and the science you don't know. Characterizing the science you don't know as "art" is a fools game.
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  #8 (permalink)
dolan
Manchester
 
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2012
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Very possible but requires a lot of patience and screen time. Also helps if you have incredibly low commissions, so trading EUREX helps immensely since their commissions are a lot cheaper. I'd also say you have to be very comfortable with your method as it's not just set a 3 tick stop loss and hope for winner, you have to constantly manage your trades.

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  #9 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
Atlanta
 
 
Posts: 127 since Jan 2017
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nikodine View Post
Hi guys,
What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all?
For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market?
So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?

I think the techniques are different in faster more volatile markets. For me, I mostly watch the prints in fast markets, the intensity of sweeps, larger prints hitting and where. I have also found that having my watchlist on a quote board where I can see the rate of change on the market im selling, positive and negative correlations. Sometimes it is easy to make trades in fast markets from that information. If you try to do how the Jigsaw vids and No BS style it is far more difficult.

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  #10 (permalink)
 RDK91 
Antwerp
 
 
Posts: 454 since Jun 2016


I think these day's it is very difficult to trade the ladder, definitely in fast moving markets.
ES for example might be better if you want to trade that way.

Also, you will need a very good DOM + other in depth information to be able to pull it of, something like Jigsaw for example.

However i agree that it will become harder and harder to do so, the algo's are making it much much harder these day's!





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  #11 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
Atlanta
 
 
Posts: 127 since Jan 2017
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RDK91 View Post
I think these day's it is very difficult to trade the ladder, definitely in fast moving markets.
ES for example might be better if you want to trade that way.

Also, you will need a very good DOM + other in depth information to be able to pull it of, something like Jigsaw for example.

I've been SIM trading NQ/CL faster markets lately after listening to a mentor. I'm coming from slower bonds so it is like a different world. I find that I don't even need to look at the DOM, let alone a chart to trade. Of course, I look at both of those for context. I think that the faster markets are more about getting into the flow of how they move, being able to spot when velocity is increasing and moving in a way to just jump on for the ride. Trading the moment with a filter. Only when it slows down can you use, say, the Jigsaw/Sierra Charts/ATAS extra data on the DOM to make those type of predictive plays based on seeing the market orders print. Looking at resting limit orders pulling/stacking seems to be a fool's errand in faster markets.

My biggest lesson has been to use a bigger stop and equal profit target. 10:10 is what I've been playing with.


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