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Trading for a living & taxes in EU
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Trading for a living & taxes in EU

 
world's citizen
 
 
Posts: 45 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 10 given, 6 received

Trading for a living & taxes in EU

Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands/Switzerland/Germany (and other EU states)

Are there any Dutch/Swiss/German traders here, who trade for a living ( for themselves, i.e., not as a trader for a trading firm or bank)?

If so, how have you arranged your taxes? Have you created an onshore, or perhaps even an offshore business entity, through which you trade?
Do you (still) pay ordinary income tax?
What are the options that are available, and from what level(s) of equity does it pay to go for construction ABC or go for construction XYZ?

Additionally, does it matter what you trade, tax wise? (For example, is there a fiscal difference between making a living trading cash forex, which is traded in the interbank market (so not in any specific country), and trading US stocks?)

If there's anyone who could shed some light on this matter, I would be very grateful.

Cheers

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Lisboa, Portugal
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: eToro, Plus500
Favorite Futures: Currency, Commodities, ETF
 
Posts: 9 since Feb 2018
Thanks: 26 given, 11 received

Emphasis on the importance of the question...


Hi, Just to say I would love to hear an answer for this too. I am from Portugal but living in Brussels and am trading more and more. Tax arrangements are somehow a blackwhole for me in the EU regarding trading.

Looking forward to some insights from experienced people.
T.



w4rri0r View Post
Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands/Switzerland/Germany (and other EU states)

Are there any Dutch/Swiss/German traders here, who trade for a living ( for themselves, i.e., not as a trader for a trading firm or bank)?

If so, how have you arranged your taxes? Have you created an onshore, or perhaps even an offshore business entity, through which you trade?
Do you (still) pay ordinary income tax?
What are the options that are available, and from what level(s) of equity does it pay to go for construction ABC or go for construction XYZ?

Additionally, does it matter what you trade, tax wise? (For example, is there a fiscal difference between making a living trading cash forex, which is traded in the interbank market (so not in any specific country), and trading US stocks?)

If there's anyone who could shed some light on this matter, I would be very grateful.

Cheers


 
 
world's citizen
 
 
Posts: 45 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 10 given, 6 received


Tagus View Post
I am from Portugal but living in Brussels and am trading more and more. Tax arrangements are somehow a blackwhole for me in the EU regarding trading.

Hi Tagus, what about trading tax in Belgium as "private" trader? I knew "speculators" (who make an investment in a stock, and take a profit within a timeframe of six months) get taxed with 33%

can you confirm?

 
 
Lisboa, Portugal
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: eToro, Plus500
Favorite Futures: Currency, Commodities, ETF
 
Posts: 9 since Feb 2018
Thanks: 26 given, 11 received


w4rri0r View Post
Hi Tagus, what about trading tax in Belgium as "private" trader? I knew "speculators" (who make an investment in a stock, and take a profit within a timeframe of six months) get taxed with 33%

can you confirm?

I am using my accounts in Portugal and the tax is lower, about 28%. Don't know exactly in Belgium, but will research that. Anyhow, it doesn't surprise me as Belgium has some of the highest taxes in Europe.

 
 
world's citizen
 
 
Posts: 45 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 10 given, 6 received


Tagus View Post
..... in Portugal and the tax is lower, about 28% ...

so in Portugal as private trader (not as business entity), capital gain is taxed 28% regardless of the trading object (stock, futures, forex, etfs)
and it's not considered as income...regardless the numbers of trades or the capital involved
Am i right?

 
 
Lisboa, Portugal
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: eToro, Plus500
Favorite Futures: Currency, Commodities, ETF
 
Posts: 9 since Feb 2018
Thanks: 26 given, 11 received


w4rri0r View Post
so in Portugal as private trader (not as business entity), capital gain is taxed 28% regardless of the trading object (stock, futures, forex, etfs)
and it's not considered as income...regardless the numbers of trades or the capital involved
Am i right?

Yes, all are taxed at 28%, in an autonomous tax exercise. If you include earnings in your yearly tax declaration, the rate will be the progressive rate applied to regular wage earnings. In this case it is only worth it if you earn less than 80K per year.

And where you live, how does it work?

Thanks,
T

 
 
Netherlands
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker/Data: Infinity Futures
Favorite Futures: FGBL
 
Posts: 59 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 48 given, 58 received

As a private trader you don't pay taxes on your earnings in the Netherlands.
You only pay for an fictional return on your capital above 25000 euro/per person. This fictional return is 4 % . From this return, you pay 1/3. Example : capital on your bank account is 50.000 euro. You pay 25.000 X 0,04 X 0,33= 333 euro/year.

The following 2 users say Thank You to Jaap8242 for this post:
 
 
world's citizen
 
 
Posts: 45 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 10 given, 6 received


Jaap8242 View Post
As a private trader you don't pay taxes on your earnings in the Netherlands.
You only pay for an fictional return on your capital above 25000 euro/per person. This fictional return is 4 % . From this return, you pay 1/3. Example : capital on your bank account is 50.000 euro. You pay 25.000 X 0,04 X 0,33= 333 euro/year.

i know in NL you are taxed 30% assuming an average gain of 4% on all your savings
so you pay 1,2% (4% 0f 30%) on your entire capital regardless your gains or losses .... the problem is (as i know) you can't do trading as main profession ... i mean ... i trade for a living and i have not other sources of income ... with over 200 trades x month ...

... as my knoledge I will be taxed (as private) as income (not capital gain) at 33% more or less ...
don't know if one trade through a company, wich type, licences (i assume trading througha company qualifies you as professional, so maybe licences are needed) and costs ... would be awesome knowing more about it

can you provide some links since look like you are trading from NL? Thanks!

 
 
world's citizen
 
 
Posts: 45 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 10 given, 6 received



Tagus View Post
And where you live, how does it work?

Thanks,
T

i live in italy so capital gain is taxed on it's own at 26% (in general...then you have different taxation about differnts instruments like etfs, state bonds - 12,5% - and so on .....) plus 3/4% for incompetent accountants (mandatory because of the ridiculous complexity of the bureaucracy and the high level of incompetence and bribery of the public aministration) ...

plus ... if you earn a good living out of your activity, the tax office will be interested in you and your money and they always find a way to fine you and ask for more money....

....it's not a nice place to live unless you are a retired person > 60/65 yo, with a minimum of 2000€ month income and you live where there's turism (near the sea or montains not the cities)

not a place for families and definitely not for young people


Last edited by w4rri0r; February 19th, 2018 at 04:29 AM.
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