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You get exactly what you want out of the market
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You get exactly what you want out of the market

  #1 (permalink)
Balls Deep
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You get exactly what you want out of the market

Can you explain what this means to you? It might be phrased differently ie 'the market will give you what you ask for' or some variation of that theme.
I have read it many times but I still dont understand it.

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
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Okay, first I strongly advise quit reading stuff and instead focus on (1) building trading systems, (2) reading markets, (3) studying market behavior. Basically, study the markets. Second, this statement is so vague that it has no value but can easily be proven false as most people want to make a fortune or at least make enough to trade for a living and very few are able too. I made up my own saying years ago which I think has more value, "The market judges you according to your claims."

Why did I make this statement? Because I had a strong ability to predict markets but your stop loss determines your precision. Right when you use a too tight stop loss, it's like if I were to grade your answer to 4 decimal places and you got it right to say 2 decimal places. It basically states this idea relating precision and accuracy and if your precision is bounded too tight then you will always lose. On the other hand, if you want to think about something, there are global and local optimals. A lot of traders lose because they are trying to trade to the global optimal. Right without considering the locally optimum solution. I'm experimenting with a new technique: instead of trying to trade with optimal stop which is often too large let me see if I can trade with the smallest risk that I can actually trade with it. Notice also if your precision is too low then you may be accurate but your answer might not be worth anything, aka trend following.

Back to to your question, I think there are explanation for this statement. The first comes from this idea that markets provide what people want whether its food, clothing, housing, etc. There is this idea that free markets provide it most efficiently. However, markets do not provide for all needs clearly as people go without. The other explanation is this idea that some people might want excitement and so if they go into the market seeking thrills/excitement they will get that whereas if you go into the market trying to make money you will get that. But, this is clearly misses the fact most people want excitement and money. The third explanation is this idea of positive thinking. But, I think this statement may have been made in Market Wizards books -- not sure.

Now, there is a similar statement, I think Jack H. made, which was "take the market's offer". This statement does have some value. Basically, if you can predict the market or know you have a great opportunity, just take the market's offer. There is opportunity for those who are willing to take it. I like that one better too but again you can't take the market offer willy nilly either or you'll end up running your account into the ground due to trading costs. Normally you don't need to take both sides of the trade at market.

In summary, this is another senseless statement that has no value.


Last edited by tpredictor; February 5th, 2018 at 02:21 PM.
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  #4 (permalink)
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I think the original quote might be more accurate if you change the word "want" to "deserve."

In the same vein, but more succinctly expressed IMO, from Mark Douglas. "Whatever results you get are a perfect reflection of your level of development and what you need to learn to do better."

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  #5 (permalink)
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Ed Seykota says that.

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Balls Deep
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Been thinking about this.

You know when you buy a car and youre driving around and you notice all the other cars the same as yours? Or you get a dog and you suddenly become aware of all the same type of dogs that are out there. So what changed? Its not that there is now magically more of a certain type of car or breed of dog, its just that your perception now confirms a subset of the data your senses are receiving (your eyes in this case).

The data: I have pug.
Confirmation cycle: Wow look at all the people who own pugs. Where were they before?

The data: I have a mustang.
Confirmation cycle: Wow look at all the mustangs on the road. I never noticed them before.


In terms of trading I have 3 states of mind:
1. Is this going up?
2. Is this going down?
3. I am waiting for my setup.

Mindset one and two indicate that I really don’t know what is going on. If I ask this question it reveals that I might be subtly biased in a certain direction whilst ignoring the actual signals. Its not a good mindset to be in. I have created lack. There is not lack in the market but I have created it in my mind and that comes through in the questions I am asking.
Mindset 3 is confident. There are no questions. Just waiting. In this state I cannot be mislead by false perception because there are no questions. There just is.

Emotion is what makes it interesting. Fear and anxiety directly relate to your experience of the market, its like using a big crayon in a colouring in book. The data you perceive is heavily influence by the colour you are using on the data. If you are fear then your mind will arbitrarily filter the data to confirm your fear. If you see opportunity and abundance then your mind will filter the data to confirm that belief. You get what you ask for.

Thats what I think this means.

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  #7 (permalink)
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Grantx View Post
You know when you buy a car and youre driving around and you notice all the other cars the same as yours? Or you get a dog and you suddenly become aware of all the same type of dogs that are out there. So what changed? Its not that there is now magically more of a certain type of car or breed of dog, its just that your perception now confirms a subset of the data your senses are receiving (your eyes in this case).

The data: I have pug.
Confirmation cycle: Wow look at all the people who own pugs. Where were they before?

The data: I have a mustang.
Confirmation cycle: Wow look at all the mustangs on the road. I never noticed them before.

Frequency Illusion: The illusion in which a word, a name, or other thing that has recently come to one's attention suddenly seems to appear with improbable frequency shortly afterwards

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  #8 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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The quote was originally by Ed Seykota, one of the pioneers of automated trading systems:

"Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing money."

(From https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ed_Seykota, quoting from Schwager, Jack D. (Editor), Market Wizards, HarperCollins (1989), page 172)

Personally, I think it sounds like it has a profound meaning, so people read a lot into it. It looks like he just meant what he said: some people want to lose, so they do.

(This actually could be taken as profound too, in a different way. )

It's sort of like one of those Zen things. You can get anything out of it if you stay with it long enough....

(More on Seykota: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Seykota )

Bob.

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