Can Day Trading be profitable for retail? - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Can Day Trading be profitable for retail?
Updated: Views / Replies:21,968 / 105
Created: by jefforey Attachments:6

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 100,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

View Poll Results: Can Day Trading be profitable, consistently, for retail traders
Yes 72 72.00%
No 13 13.00%
Can't say 15 15.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 6  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Can Day Trading be profitable for retail?

  #31 (permalink)
Prague Czech Republic
 
 
Posts: 16 since Jan 2018
Thanks: 1 given, 10 received


jefforey View Post
Ok By Day-Trading I mean not more than 20 trades/Instrument a day. And all trades closed before market close.

somedays I make over 50 like today and somedays less than 10, there are no similar days

closing the trade because of the time is senseless to me unless it is in a good profit you are happy with. The deal should be closed either by take profit or a stop loss but not because it is 11:59 pm.

The answer is "Yes" it can be in general, but not each separate day.

Reply With Quote
 
  #32 (permalink)
edison new jersey
 
Trading Experience: None
Platform: motivewave
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 69 since Nov 2016
Thanks: 45 given, 17 received


uncharted View Post
closing the trade because of the time is senseless to me unless it is in a good profit you are happy with. The deal should be closed either by take profit or a stop loss but not because it is 11:59 pm.

But if you are trading intraday and want to avoid overnight risk then closing the trade before market close is normal. Isn't it?

Reply With Quote
 
  #33 (permalink)
Prague Czech Republic
 
 
Posts: 16 since Jan 2018
Thanks: 1 given, 10 received


Please explain what might be the risk? Gaps usually happen on Monday opening only, if you have your stoploss and take profit in place there should be no risk.

Reply With Quote
 
  #34 (permalink)
Super Moderator
London UK
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: CQG
Broker/Data: S5
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
xplorer's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,823 since Sep 2015
Thanks: 11,885 given, 10,530 received


uncharted View Post
Please explain what might be the risk? Gaps usually happen on Monday opening only, if you have your stoploss and take profit in place there should be no risk.

Check the words in bold above. That's the risk right there

Reply With Quote
 
  #35 (permalink)
Prague Czech Republic
 
 
Posts: 16 since Jan 2018
Thanks: 1 given, 10 received

Well, I would take such risk,
does not mean someone else should of course.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to uncharted for this post:
 
  #36 (permalink)
Super Moderator
London UK
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: CQG
Broker/Data: S5
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
xplorer's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,823 since Sep 2015
Thanks: 11,885 given, 10,530 received


uncharted View Post
Well, I would take such risk,
does not mean someone else should of course.

Sorry, I was just being pedantic with the statement 'there should be no risk' which to me is a misnomer but I accept what you say, i.e. that there should be a relatively low-risk overnight. If nothing happens when we are asleep, that is.

Some people deal with it, others don't, that's all.

Reply With Quote
 
  #37 (permalink)
North Carolina
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 644 since Nov 2011

Yes, day trading futures can be profitable. However, most will not make money day trading. Also, most of the big money is probably not in strictly day trading. Sometimes the markets offer more day trading opportunities. Yes, it is very difficult to overcome costs if you are scalping and/or not taking much risk per trade. I am trying/have tried the latter. It is very difficult. Of course, if you can trade in that fashion profitably the sky is the limit because of the way the mathematics work.

But, just in terms of reality... the professional retail/professional trader today probably must draw from a wider palette of profit opportunity because the markets are rather efficient.

The following is the most likely portrait of the successful elite retail trader today:

1. The trader has significant discretionary trading ability and tracks the markets closely every day like is commonly viewed as a day trader. However, this trader is not limited to discretionary day trading but rather has various grayboxes that help highlight profit opportunities. This sort of trader is probably only using discretion in the first 1 or 2 hours and is careful to limit their trading frequency during this period. After the first hour or so, the trader probably switches to focusing more on the semi-automated and automated opportunities.

2. The trader probably has a low frequency day trading systems that trigger and also systems that aren't easily categorized. Because of recent risk on markets, the trader is likely holding positions over multiple days in many cases and/or day trading but not in the strict sense.

3. Most likely has automated strategies running as well of various types. May be hold options in addition to futures to limit risk.

4. The successful trader may also be tracking markets over long periods of time and waiting for exceptional opportunities.

5. Probably is very well capitalized with min 100k to 500k.

6. Devotes significant resources to both backtesting and training.

7. Performance is likely highly variable with insane returns over some weeks or months and then very bad returns over others.

The following is the proto-typical image of the day trader but one that is very difficult to achieve:

1. Day trades only 1 market, uses tight stops, risks only a tiny amount per trade, places many trades per day, and is profitable virtually every day. I have tried this. It is very, very difficult. Anyone doing this successfully surely are using some tricks/doing some things differently then common wisdom suggest.

The following is possible and some may be doing this

1. Day trades 1-2 markets, takes a large risk per day, and is profitable most days. This sort of trading style can be consistent but has large tail risk.
2. Mostly day trades but tries to get into some bigger trades that they can hold over a couple to several days and/or trades at odd times.
---

The most common sort of day trading that can be profitable for the retail trader is focusing on capturing trend days and/or lower frequency day trading. This sort of trading can be profitable but opportunity is limited/narrow for professional trader.

Even if one is day trading in the "proto-typical" or idealized imagined fashion, most likely there are still periods of drawdown which is made worse due to the high trading costs.
---

As an aside, I do not like traders that talk about consistently profitable without qualifying what they mean. How consistent? How profitable? The two do not need to go together and without specifics it is impossible to know what one means.


Last edited by tpredictor; January 27th, 2018 at 12:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #38 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Missoula, MT
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: CL, ES
 
michaelleemoore's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,396 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 5,325 given, 11,926 received


jefforey View Post
I agree that there is no incentive. I am just looking for some evidence. Not here to offend anyone. One way would be to post backtesting results done using tick data, I guess.


I am a discretionary trader. I trader support/resistance, and take short-term trades at well-known areas such as the D-High, Y-low, VWAP, the daily opening price, etc. I expect short-terms reactions at those places, and my trades are successful at about an 80% rate. I have short targets, tight stops, and trade 3-5 contracts per trade, in general.

You can not back test what I do, as it is not a system based on indicators providing some sort of signal to trade. I have observed the market for thousands of hours and I "know" that certain markets will react at certain levels by any overwhelming percentage. So, I take the trades when I "feel" like the level I'm looking at will provoke the reaction.

I have a goal of making four figures a day, and succeed on most days. I have been profitable for several years, and lose at a rate of less than one day per month. What I do seems very simple to me. I take trades at places on the chart. I know where my markets are in terms of the day, week and month, but my trades are all based on the moment. But I don't speculate often about the reasons the market moves like it does, and I don't pay attention to volume, order flow, etc.

I ran an active thread on FIO for quite a while, and detailed my trading journey. You can read it at The Scalper's Journey.

I trade with a small group of traders every day, and I can assure that our small handful of traders is profitable. We do not all share the same approach, but we make money. You can too, but you have to put in the time. It's not easy. But the problem is not commissions, brokers, others in the market, etc. If you are not making money in the market, the problem is you. Only you can fix that problem.

Good luck,

Michael

Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
  #39 (permalink)
edison new jersey
 
Trading Experience: None
Platform: motivewave
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 69 since Nov 2016
Thanks: 45 given, 17 received

Thanks everyone for your contribution. I truly appreciate each and every responce.



michaelleemoore View Post
I am a discretionary trader. I trader support/resistance, and take short-term trades at well-known areas such as the D-High, Y-low, VWAP, the daily opening price, etc. I expect short-terms reactions at those places, and my trades are successful at about an 80% rate. I have short targets, tight stops, and trade 3-5 contracts per trade, in general.

You can not back test what I do, as it is not a system based on indicators providing some sort of signal to trade. I have observed the market for thousands of hours and I "know" that certain markets will react at certain levels by any overwhelming percentage. So, I take the trades when I "feel" like the level I'm looking at will provoke the reaction.

I have a goal of making four figures a day, and succeed on most days. I have been profitable for several years, and lose at a rate of less than one day per month. What I do seems very simple to me. I take trades at places on the chart. I know where my markets are in terms of the day, week and month, but my trades are all based on the moment. But I don't speculate often about the reasons the market moves like it does, and I don't pay attention to volume, order flow, etc.

I ran an active thread on FIO for quite a while, and detailed my trading journey. You can read it at The Scalper's Journey.

I trade with a small group of traders every day, and I can assure that our small handful of traders is profitable. We do not all share the same approach, but we make money. You can too, but you have to put in the time. It's not easy. But the problem is not commissions, brokers, others in the market, etc. If you are not making money in the market, the problem is you. Only you can fix that problem.

Good luck,

Michael

Michael. Thankyou for responding to this thread. Is your stop larger than profit target? I am really struggling with my strategy. One of my strategy is 70% successful but it loses twise than the winner.

Reply With Quote
 
  #40 (permalink)
London
 
 
Posts: 1 since Nov 2016
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Homework, Discipline, Consistency & Conviction = Profit


I have to admit few so called trading educators can really put you on the right track towards profit. However there are a few that I believe have the right attitude and decency when dealing with retail traders.

My story will be the same as most I'm sure. Though I consider myself lucky to be still on the same account as when I first set out to trade.

How did I turn it around from getting beaten up by the market to holding my own...

1. Homework is key.
2. Know thy Market. Auction Theory.
3. Know thy trading Monkey (Psychology)

All of the above points ... Credit and a massive thank-you to futuresTrader71.

4. Reading & Dissecting the market.
5. Orderflow
6. Best Trading Tools & Support this side of the trading galaxy

All of the above points ... Credit and a massive thank-you to Peter Davies / Jigsaw Trading.

Valuable, Insightful, content rich, life-changing material with a value ten times that of the other trading educations AND for a fraction of the cost. Did you know FT71 Webinar series (Awesome)...all the proceeds go to his chosen charity!!!

Because of these guys I now nail trade location and have called every new all time high on the NQ for the last three months. Not that I trade tops/bottoms. Seriously check them out.


Last edited by BazGibson; January 27th, 2018 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Spelling
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to BazGibson for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Can Day Trading be profitable for retail?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

futures io is celebrating 10-years w/ over $18,000 in prizes!

Right now
 

$1,000 in Amazon Gift Cards being given away right now from GFF Brokers

Right now
 

$250 Amazon Gift Cards with our "Thanks Contest" challenge!

Right now
 

Show us your trading desks and win over $5,000 in prizes w/Jigsaw Trading

August
 

Webinar: Chart Patterns and Practical Trading Stats w/Suri Duddella

Elite only
 

Webinar: Richard Bailey (TBA)

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Most profitable Trading room Farhangp Trading Reviews and Vendors 19 December 28th, 2016 05:40 PM
Profitable sim/market replay = profitable live? nourozi NinjaTrader 7 January 20th, 2014 10:03 AM
Profitable Patterns in Trading JDNeeman Trading Journals 8 June 28th, 2012 07:45 PM
Facebook Brings the Retail Investor Back … for a Day Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 May 18th, 2012 07:20 PM
What is most profitable for a retail trader? Big Mike Traders Hideout 22 May 6th, 2012 08:05 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:20 AM. (this page content is cached, log in for real-time version)

Copyright © 2019 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts