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Must have books for "Price Action" trading.
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Must have books for "Price Action" trading.

  #11 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Tymbeline View Post
...but I acknowledge that he chooses not to prove that when asked (I don't blame him, and would do the same).

Obviously, deciding whether or not to share proof of his trading performance is his decision. In that case, he should just say "I choose not to share my performance."

But he says "it is illegal for me to show performance." That is 100% BS and untrue. Once you understand that, it is like pulling a stray thread - the whole garment can start to unravel...

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  #12 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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And by the way, you can still learn things from others, whether or not they trade live, or trade successfully.

I learned a lot from Jim Paul (RIP), even though he lost more than a million dollars trading spreads.

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  #13 (permalink)
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kevinkdog View Post
Obviously, deciding whether or not to share proof of his trading performance is his decision. In that case, he should just say "I choose not to share my performance."

But he says "it is illegal for me to show performance." That is 100% BS and untrue.


Yes, I agree, Kevin, that the way he dealt with that issue was particularly poor.

As I said at the time, I would have had more respect for him if he'd said "Go away and mind your own business - I don't share that information".

I remain, however, one of the people commenting that however badly he's dealt with that specific issue, we don't have to pay back to anyone the income we've made from learning and following what Brooks teaches. And I offer respectfully the observation that there do seem to be rather a lot of us, in rather a lot of places, saying that.

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  #14 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Tymbeline View Post
Yes, I agree, Kevin, that the way he dealt with that issue was particularly poor.

As I said at the time, I would have had more respect for him if he'd said "Go away and mind your own business - I don't share that information".

I remain, however, one of the people commenting that however badly he's dealt with that specific issue, we don't have to pay back to anyone the income we've made from learning and following what Brooks teaches. And I offer respectfully the observation that there do seem to be rather a lot of us, in rather a lot of places, saying that.

I think my last comment snuck in before yours, where I echo your sentiment:

"And by the way, you can still learn things from others, whether or not they trade live, or trade successfully. "

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  #15 (permalink)
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Tymbeline

Thank you for taking the time to give such an concise and insightful response.

your input is very much appreciated.

I am really impressed with the friendly and helpful tenor of this forum.

I'm certainly glad I paid for the elite membership

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  #16 (permalink)
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Thank you all for taking the time to share your opinions.

This is exactly the kind of information I've been looking for....

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  #17 (permalink)
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I'd say Adam Grimes: The Art & Science of Technical Analysis: Market Structure, Price Action & Trading Strategies
is a good book to read as well to get an understanding of market structure and price patterns. Its not so much bar by bar analysis tho. I found the information and setups in this book very similar to the YTC stuff.

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  #18 (permalink)
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pcartrader View Post
Hey everyone

I'm done with indicators and black box systems and have come to the conclusion that I've got to learn to trade "Price Action".

Unfortunately, there is an endless list of books dealing with "Price Action".

I was hoping, you all might be able to shorten the list by telling me which are the "MUST HAVE" books to learn "Price action" trading.

Thank you all in advance,



Hey pcartrader - it is good you are giving up on indicators since they are all useless. price action is certainly the way to go long term if you are wanting to do this for a living. With this said, there are some things to consider since there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to price action (or trading)..

1) the review - i did not read it, and dont care to. but i will address your two points. "Al doesn't show his returns" - have you ever seen a professional trader publish their returns? Because i have not. Any that i have heard of that do trade SIM mode or do not show all trades and only show certain accounts. In fact, it is potentially illegal to show or recommend trades which is why you always see the disclaimer about trading. Do i know for a fact Al is profitable? No. But after receiving my "MBA" in price action trading and learning and understanding the markets from his books, i am very confident he is (if his students can do it, obviously he can).

@kevinkdog mentioned it is BS that showing trades is illegal. While I agree it is not clearly illegal, it is not totally legal either (there is a lot of gray area). If you look into this it is not BS and certainly should be a concern for anyone who is wanting to show their trades while running an educational trading business.


2) "idiosyncratic jargon" - once you understand his vocabulary it starts to make sense. whoever wrote the review obviously didnt take the time to understand what Al is saying before assuming it is all jargon. In fact, the price action concepts have been around for longer than Al's methodology. Look at Wyckoff, Edwards, Magee, ect.


3) Although I agree with S trader that screen time is important, i would find it hard to believe you would become profitable from this alone. Sure you may develop an understanding of prices, but you wont understand what is actually happening within the bar (or understand the institutions). For instance if you see a bull reversal bar, you assume prices are reversing. However this is not necessarily the case. perhaps the institutions are instead scaling in and exiting. without first understanding the market cycle, traders equation, and how institutions manage trades, you are never going to develop a true understanding of the market or prices. So first you have to learn and understand these three important concepts, then apply them every day. at that point the screen time becomes important.


4) Bob volman - i have never read his books but do know traders who have. from what i understand his method is a breakout method. since 80% of breakouts and reversal attempts fail, this is a losing strategy unless you are very good at identifying a successful breakout. As far as learning to trade price action with this strategy, i think you (or anyone) will have a difficult time. With that said, those who have read his books do seem to like him.


5) Trading is very hard to do. if you are looking for an easy way to make money, go mow lawns or something else because easy money does not exist in this business. It takes a long time of learning and applying Al's information in order to learn to trade price action. Because of this, i believe he is the best to learn from and most in depth. Is he or anyone else going to turn you into a profitable trader? No. That is up to you. But if you work hard day in and day out, it is possible. But remember, it is not, and will never be easy.


6) Al's courses - i am an old school Al student as i prefer the books over the video course (old). I found the video course informative, but not in depth enough to truly understand markets. The books (after reading several times) provide you with a priceless understanding. Everyone speaks highly of the new video course on his forum and website, and the few videos i watched were really good. But i have not watched enough to say it is as informative as the books.


7) This is not a "plug" for myself or any way of me pushing anything on to anyone. But i am currently working on a project (book and website) which makes it easier to understand price action concepts, and is more structured (and shorter) than Al's trilogy. I also take it a step further when it comes to understanding probability of a setup (very important component of the traders equation), which i believe will help shorten the learning curve. You can also view my journal where i have posted many days of my analysis and how i apply Al's methodology every day. I am not doing it for money, trading is my focus and career. It is more to help understand what i am talking about when i analyze the EURUSD for those who are not students of Al. (Also, Al focuses on ES, but beginners need to be trading forex). Again, not trying to promote myself just informing anyone who is interested. It will be another few months at min before it is complete anyways.


Hope this helps! And good luck on your journey, where ever it may take you.

Josh

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  #19 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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mastercraft29 View Post

@kevinkdog mentioned it is BS that showing trades is illegal. While I agree it is not clearly illegal, it is not totally legal either (there is a lot of gray area). If you look into this it is not BS and certainly should be a concern for anyone who is wanting to show their trades while running an educational trading business.

Please explain.

I have had multiple conversations with NFA, CFTC, IRS and experienced lawyers and CPAs in this area, and not one has said it is illegal to show actual trading performance.

What is illegal is showing any kind of performance (fake, real, hypothetical, etc) without the required government disclaimers. Some have thought they could show actual performance with the hypothetical disclaimer, and that is not true.

Please correct me if you see this as being wrong.

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  #20 (permalink)
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kevinkdog View Post
Please explain.

I have had multiple conversations with NFA, CFTC, IRS and experienced lawyers and CPAs in this area, and not one has said it is illegal to show actual trading performance.

What is illegal is showing any kind of performance (fake, real, hypothetical, etc) without the required government disclaimers. Some have thought they could show actual performance with the hypothetical disclaimer, and that is not true.

Please correct me if you see this as being wrong.


That is very interesting. But like i said there is a lot of gray area on this subject. I view it similar to that of medical marijuana. It is legal at the state level but not the federal. So is it legal or illegal? Depends on who you ask and is subject to discretion. Showing a trade work out or not is one thing but recommending trades in a room or real time are two different things. The later would require some form of financial planning certification from the research i have done.

Perhaps i am wrong. You seem to have better contacts than I do in the legal field of trading, and i am not a lawyer. But after looking at many trading education websites, I have yet to find one who shows their trades or performance, and the ones that have are frauds. So this is not solely an Al Brooks issue and leads me to believe there is something more to it than being complete BS.

If i knew for fact it was legal, I would consider sharing my performance along with my review once my website is operational. Until someone can say with certainty it is legal I think it is risky and most (or all) will continue to share their insight, but not results.

Either way, good conversation. And I hope you do not think I am trying to challenge you personally.

Josh

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