making 2 sided markets - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading

making 2 sided markets
Updated: Views / Replies:4,702 / 13
Created: by Jamie818 Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 100,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Thread Tools Search this Thread

making 2 sided markets

  #11 (permalink)
Toronto ON/Canada
Posts: 8 since Mar 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Hello convex, Thank you for your reply and information. That is interesting , assuming you are correct then it is indeed a widespread myth. Martha Stokes at goes on and on about how "it's not the market makers running your stops-- it's the HFT's. They are wired right to the exchange and they see all that info. They are the ones ripping you off." But then what would you say to allegations that HFT's employ stop hunting techniques such as "momentum ignition"? If they cannot see stop orders resting in the book what are they basing their strategy off-- simply a hunch based off significant previous swing area?

Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)
New York, NY
Posts: 3 since May 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

The specs for the datafeeds available to HFTs are typically available on the web. For example the CME direct feed is MDP 3 and the section of documentation relevant to order book feeds can be found as the first google response to "mdp3 book management" (I'd post a link but I don't have enough posts on this forum to be allowed to). If you look through that, you'll see that stop orders are nowhere there. In fact, not only are stop orders not there but even some limit orders ("Iceberg" or "reserve" orders are hidden in all dataefeds as well).

I suspect that in reality, nobody is actually hunting your stops but rather, they are either picking up on statistical signals or even more likely, you are attributing malice to random movements of the market. What I mean by picking up by statistical signals is that a pattern of "When a size X order, submitted at a latency insensitive time (so probably not by an algo) trades and the price moves Y against it, there's a Z % chance to see an aggressive size-X order reversing the position" isn't exactly rocket science. Even then, those indicators typically go into a predictive model as to what the "fair price" is, so if the market starts falling for other reason's, the algo trader will know that there's a hidden sell order coming soon and will adjust its fair valuation accordingly; I don't believe people are aggressively moving markets in order to induce stop orders but rather just moving their fair-value valuations to adjust for the information.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to convextrading for this post:
  #13 (permalink)
Trading Experience: None
Platform: RTP, IRT
Favorite Futures: ZB, FGBL
Posts: 53 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 53 given, 52 received

convextrading View Post
"When a size X order, submitted at a latency insensitive time (so probably not by an algo) trades and the price moves Y against it, there's a Z % chance to see an aggressive size-X order reversing the position"

I'd call that stop hunting. Semantics...

Sent from my iPhone using

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)
New York, NY
Posts: 3 since May 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Call it what you will, my point is that the stop orders are not transmitted in the datafeed (at least not before they get triggered and become limit / market orders). Furthermore, what I intended to say is "most likely nobody is noticing or cares about your stops but if they are, this is how they could do it" so yes, the "if they are this is how they can do it" part can be called stop hunting if you want.

Alexander Savin View Post
I'd call that stop hunting. Semantics...

Last edited by convextrading; May 15th, 2017 at 04:31 PM.
Reply With Quote


futures io > > > making 2 sided markets

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

futures io is celebrating 10-years w/ over $18,000 in prizes!

Right now

$1,000 in Amazon Gift Cards being given away right now from GFF Brokers

Right now

$250 Amazon Gift Cards with our "Thanks Contest" challenge!

Right now

Show us your trading desks and win over $5,000 in prizes w/Jigsaw Trading


Webinar: Suri Duddella (TBA)

Elite only

Webinar: Richard Bailey (TBA)

Elite only

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[NinjaTrader]    Renko--Is Anyone Making Money With This? Krav69 Platforms and Indicators 2 July 5th, 2016 06:01 PM
Sick of making so much money Itchymoku Off-Topic 13 November 13th, 2015 12:03 AM
Training, help, advice, trading, guidance, futures markets, stock markets RaySteel Traders Hideout 10 September 7th, 2015 01:30 PM
Making the most of BMT TickedOff Traders Hideout 2 January 7th, 2015 08:27 AM
making a gap less chart cjstrader5 Traders Hideout 3 October 1st, 2010 08:43 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:55 AM. (this page content is cached, log in for real-time version)

Copyright © 2019 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432,
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts