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Help me stop obsessing over TICK charts!


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Help me stop obsessing over TICK charts!

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  #1 (permalink)
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I am scalper obsessing over whether to use TIME, TICK or VOLUME bases candles. I understand the benefits of all three but what I don't understand is why so many people use seemingly random TICK settings. At least in a TIME chart there are just a few common time frames like 1M, 5M, 15M etc.

Could someone please give their insight as to wether or not TICK charts are even necessary?

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  #3 (permalink)
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What is your style? Tick and or volume bars show trend lines, channels. Find the one you can make money at and please relax dude. You should be using some renko type anyway. What do you trade? If we all traded the same way the price would not move. This is a beginner question. IMHO.

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  #4 (permalink)
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I don't know about scalping (true scalping, about 1 point or less on the ES) but for swings and rotations trading tick charts are widely considered to more clearly show the ebb and flow of the price action. I personally agree with that assessment.

For example in a fast market using 5 minute charts will often result in one huge bar, where tick charts will show many bars allowing more entry/exit opportunities. If the market is moving fast and you make trading decisions based on end of bars you could be screwed with minute charts.

With tick charts you automatically get implied volume information, high volume results in quick bars, low volume the bars can practically stop.

There are other advantages as well but in the end its a personal choice.

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  #5 (permalink)
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Granular resolution is more important in faster markets, the slower or more consolidative, the lower the resolution needed. Since signals wont generate during consolidative markets.

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  #6 (permalink)
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My personal experience is : tick/ volume chart shows more details than 5 min bars and one should not pay too much attention to single bars in these charts, instead, pay more attention to the resistance/ support levels.

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  #7 (permalink)
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Range or Reversal Bars. It's like turning the lights on.

Remove time completely from your charts. It has no value and introduces non price related noise.

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  #8 (permalink)
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In my opinion all of the bars you selected do not show price action clearly or efficiently. Next time attaching a chart would help. My trading mentor told me that to successfully trade the market, our strategy has to consist of repeatable visual occurrences which is a roundabout term for patterns.

I would suggest Renko or Uni-Renko bars especially if your strategy is scalping as oppose to trend or position trading.

The Renko bar manages to filter out a lot of noise and chatter that the other bars simply cannot.

Complimented by a few other indicators, that are readily available here, you can construct a viable strategy. I have been testing a scalping strategy myself that I will eventually automate.

This is what my chart looks like:

[IMG][IMG][/IMG][/IMG]

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  #9 (permalink)
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TraderJohn66 View Post
I am scalper obsessing over whether to use TIME, TICK or VOLUME bases candles. I understand the benefits of all three but what I don't understand is why so many people use seemingly random TICK settings. At least in a TIME chart there are just a few common time frames like 1M, 5M, 15M etc.

Could someone please give their insight as to wether or not TICK charts are even necessary?

it's normal nothing obsessive about it. You remind me of Tony, each morning his group would waited anxiously for his "numbers" these would be his tick numbers 1 for fast chart and 1 for slow chart. This routine went on for years until he was old and got tired of varying the charts each morning to find the right 'look'. So he just stuck to some fix numbers and guess what? they also worked. He used them until he passed away.

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  #10 (permalink)
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TraderJohn66 View Post
I am scalper obsessing over whether to use TIME, TICK or VOLUME bases candles. I understand the benefits of all three but what I don't understand is why so many people use seemingly random TICK settings. At least in a TIME chart there are just a few common time frames like 1M, 5M, 15M etc.

Could someone please give their insight as to wether or not TICK charts are even necessary?

There is no right or wrong answer. That is the answer.

On some days, the Tick chart would look better to you (in hindsight). For others, the time chart.

People are a bit too quick to dismiss time charts. They are great at showing fast volatility whereas on tick/volume charts you would have to often figure out the time spent on each bar. Also, volume on the chart, if you have an edge with it.

Personally, I use a combo of volume charts and very fast timeframe time charts. I also keep a time chart up of the same frequency as the volume chart just to see a different perspective.

If you don't want random numbers, simply choose a timeframe you like to trade on, put volume on the bottom of it, and a high period m.a. over the volume. Set your volume chart to that average. Now you have a volume chart that should be a similar frequency to the time chart of your choosing.

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  #11 (permalink)
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TraderJohn66 View Post
I am scalper obsessing over whether to use TIME, TICK or VOLUME bases candles. I understand the benefits of all three but what I don't understand is why so many people use seemingly random TICK settings. At least in a TIME chart there are just a few common time frames like 1M, 5M, 15M etc.

Could someone please give their insight as to wether or not TICK charts are even necessary?

Just forget tick charts, From now on only use volume charts, it's what works for me.

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  #12 (permalink)
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My opinion - it doesn't really matter which type of charts you use. It won't make the difference between making and losing money.

All you need to know is where the market has been and where it reversed.

The actual interval isn't that important either - it should be set so you can see enough history to make decisions. For me, that means being able to see the current session on the screen.

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  #13 (permalink)
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Try to place on one screed 3-4 different tick charts. You will see (or not) the difference. For you...

Fist: today CL 500 Ticks chart:


what are you see? nothing

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  #14 (permalink)
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Now see 100 ticks chart



and see volume expands lines.

Profit

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  #15 (permalink)
CONSTANTINE/ALGERIA (DZ)
 
 
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a use ticket chart for scalping aim very happy a never use bar time chart because he ripped money and confused time trading =expose to risk and time is risk to go more 5 minute you inderstand a hate to make time bar and look it goo up go down never seee what happed a use ticket chart when market go fast make good profit for market and range bar for other market : Becky:

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  #16 (permalink)
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karentrader View Post
There is no right or wrong answer. That is the answer.

On some days, the Tick chart would look better to you (in hindsight). For others, the time chart.

People are a bit too quick to dismiss time charts. They are great at showing fast volatility whereas on tick/volume charts you would have to often figure out the time spent on each bar. Also, volume on the chart, if you have an edge with it.

Personally, I use a combo of volume charts and very fast timeframe time charts. I also keep a time chart up of the same frequency as the volume chart just to see a different perspective.

If you don't want random numbers, simply choose a timeframe you like to trade on, put volume on the bottom of it, and a high period m.a. over the volume. Set your volume chart to that average. Now you have a volume chart that should be a similar frequency to the time chart of your choosing.

Time in bar is irrelevant. Only price matters.

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  #17 (permalink)
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order66 View Post
Time in bar is irrelevant. Only price matters.

Based on what?

Big firms and non professionals enter orders based on time and price, together. if you've ever worked a big order book, you would understand that humans love easy reference points, and time is often 1 of them.

And what I elaborated on was to easily reference fast buying/selling via time charts. That is not irrelevant.

To say such a blanket, sweeping statement does not work in markets that have so many complexities.

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  #18 (permalink)
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TraderJohn66 View Post
I am scalper obsessing over whether to use TIME, TICK or VOLUME bases candles. I understand the benefits of all three but what I don't understand is why so many people use seemingly random TICK settings. At least in a TIME chart there are just a few common time frames like 1M, 5M, 15M etc.

Could someone please give their insight as to wether or not TICK charts are even necessary?

To comment on one part of your above post regarding...
Quoting 
seemingly random TICK settings

Many traders make use of the Fibonacci sequence to set the tick amount per bar.

0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584....etc --->∞

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number

Ron

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  #19 (permalink)
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Blash View Post
Many traders make use of the Fibonacci sequence to set the tick amount per bar.


They do - but many believe in astrology and moon-phases, too.

There's no rational reason for using Fibonacci numbers to set the tick-count, is there?

I may have missed something (and in fact that's normally the reason for my failure to understand things) but I don't really understand why people with volume-charts available should ever prefer tick-charts. There seem to be enough of them, even among profitable traders, for there probably to be a valid reason, but I don't understand it, myself. Even after discussing it on several occasions.

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  #20 (permalink)
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Tymbeline View Post
They do - but many believe in astrology and moon-phases, too.

There's no rational reason for using Fibonacci numbers to set the tick-count, is there?

I may have missed something (and in fact that's normally the reason for my failure to understand things) but I don't really understand why people with volume-charts available should ever prefer tick-charts. There seem to be enough of them, even among profitable traders, for there probably to be a valid reason, but I don't understand it, myself. Even after discussing it on several occasions.



I have come to believe..... if you (the understood you) are comfortable using whatever you use and believe in it in yourself your method your skill sets your abilities your judgment your decisions making ability your self control are confident (for the sake of a brief post stopping here) you could use just about anything in any combination and pull $mil's from the market each year.

Beliefs are the most powerful. They define your life in every single way. It's an illusion that most can't see past.

For example I no longer have any desire whatsoever to view or participate in trading type webinars. It matters not what that person does in that webinar training. If they believe in it to the extent stated above it will work for them. And if someone tries to fit it to themselves but doesn't believe in it it will not work at all.

This might sound dead wrong and one could say, "but if the system works and you apply it correctly XYZ will happen" but that's part of the great illusion sucking in traders every single second.

Ron


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  #21 (permalink)
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Tymbeline View Post
They do - but many believe in astrology and moon-phases, too.

There's no rational reason for using Fibonacci numbers to set the tick-count, is there?

I may have missed something (and in fact that's normally the reason for my failure to understand things) but I don't really understand why people with volume-charts available should ever prefer tick-charts. There seem to be enough of them, even among profitable traders, for there probably to be a valid reason, but I don't understand it, myself. Even after discussing it on several occasions.

The market was a great emotional people how the trade and the trader was affected by the nature and condition of the mind
If you look at the full moon many people have been affected it is true a simple to understand, use tick chart i have more information when a time candle bar a use tick many years in stock and futures aim very satisfied bar Tick a use bar time just for ordreflow to look aggressive seller or buyer

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  #22 (permalink)
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k7ler View Post
use tick chart i have more information when a time candle bar a use tick many years in stock and futures aim very satisfied bar Tick


I'm not suggesting that anyone should use time charts instead of tick charts: I'm simply saying that I don't understand people's preference for tick charts over constant-volume candles.

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  #23 (permalink)
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Tymbeline View Post
I'm not suggesting that anyone should use time charts instead of tick charts: I don't understand people's preference for tick charts over constant-volume candles.

Agree with that. I think tick charts are a nice option for spot forex traders who don't have volume but I don't see why a futures trader would really prefer them. Each to their own though.

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