I'd be the last person to argue that national governments and their half-assed implementations of democracy in the UK, other european countries or the US are perfect, free of corruption or political shenanigans. That already limited semblence of democratic representation and political accountability has been steadily eroded for decades as the media has been silent and silenced to a greater and greater extent. I agree with Chomsky - elections in the US (and elsewhere) are stage-managed events where the perception of choice is really only the difference between two flavours of the same gruel. That is the essence of the global-elite plan that goes back to at least (and probably much further than) the Anglo-American Establishment of the late 19th century that Prof Carroll Quigley wrote about in the late 60s in Tragedy & Hope, with the formation of the Rhodes scholars, the Rockefeller, Carnegie (etc) so-called philanthropic foundations, the intelligence services (etc) in order to control every aspect of society. As JD Rockefeller so infamously said "competition is a sin". And that brings us full circle to the EU commission corporate cartel.

But there's still a difference between voting for political representation that has the capacity, if not the will or the wherewithall in the majority of cases, to enact change for the benefit of contituents, and the current EU politburo. The US Congress is most of the way to the same situation through the excessive influence of corporate and foreign government financing, but it hasn't yet reached the total anti-democratic level of the EU. But its close. And while that is still the case - in any country - there's still the opportunity to change the gruel for something more palatable.

Sure but why would that make a difference? There will be people in both camps that, if it rains, won't have been bothered to go and vote. There will also be people determined to vote no matter what. Again that should apply to both camps.

I'm not sure I buy the weather argument.

It was not intended to be a very serious observation, not much to buy just noting a randomising effect on a very tightly contested poll.

If rain was a symmetric influence across the geography of the land I'd agree but I made the point about regional and demographic bias?

I agree with most of it except I will reverse this sentence : "The US Congress is most of the way to the same situation through the excessive influence of corporate and foreign government financing, but it hasn't yet reached the total anti-democratic level of the EU. "

When you are implementing regulations that affect lots of different countries with different situations and problems what we can call the regular "democratic" process may be not perceived. But if we take actual examples the EU has taken very courageous measures in the global interest of the population and measures that were fiercely defended by powerful lobby (and yes they also took a lot of stupid one). Like interdiction of some pesticides, regulation of the use of genetically modified agricultural products etc... Those subjects have really hurt very powerful corporations. We don't see that in North America, here what is good for the business, the population must live with it.

I'd be the last person to argue that national governments and their half-assed implementations of democracy in the UK, other european countries or the US are perfect, free of corruption or political shenanigans. That already limited semblence of democratic representation and political accountability has been steadily eroded for decades as the media has been silent and silenced to a greater and greater extent. I agree with Chomsky - elections in the US (and elsewhere) are stage-managed events where the perception of choice is really only the difference between two flavours of the same gruel. That is the essence of the global-elite plan that goes back to at least (and probably much further than) the Anglo-American Establishment of the late 19th century that Prof Carroll Quigley wrote about in the late 60s in Tragedy & Hope, with the formation of the Rhodes scholars, the Rockefeller, Carnegie (etc) so-called philanthropic foundations, the intelligence services (etc) in order to control every aspect of society. As JD Rockefeller so infamously said "competition is a sin". And that brings us full circle to the EU commission corporate cartel.

But there's still a difference between voting for political representation that has the capacity, if not the will or the wherewithall in the majority of cases, to enact change for the benefit of contituents, and the current EU politburo. The US Congress is most of the way to the same situation through the excessive influence of corporate and foreign government financing, but it hasn't yet reached the total anti-democratic level of the EU. But its close. And while that is still the case - in any country - there's still the opportunity to change the gruel for something more palatable.

No worries... I think I get what you say... you're suggesting that, given older people are the ones who tend to want to leave, they might have been more affected by the weather and in that case just stay home?

Watching BBC. Very very early but does it seem like the expected stay vote area's are coming in with a lower than expected majority and the leave expected area's are higher majority than expected? Saying that USDGBP is ticking up not down.