Would anyone be so kind as to give me some direction or point me in the right way? I've been consuming as much material as is available for free on the internet and I am wary of paying for a course unless recommended by any of you guys.
I just finished reading "Trading in the Zone" and will begin again in a couple of days as I really want to internalize the concepts the author brings and I think the psychology portion of trading is what will come most natural to me. On the other hand as someone with no experience with any sort of interaction with the market I have been finding that to be the first of many walls I have hit and look to get across it as soon as possible.
I've been taking the "art of trading" free course online and it has been exceptionally helpful in teaching some of the basic theory and terminology but already in lesson 3 things are getting a bit confusing. To compound the issue I downloaded NinjaTrader to check it out and was left even more confused.
Any direction would be greatly appreciated... I'm a rookie but one eager to learn just looking for the right knowledge.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Dalton14 for this post:
@Dalton14 the only advice I can give is to become an Elite member of futures.io. You will gain access to much more content with what I believe are professional full time traders for a considerably modest fee.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Devil Man for this post:
Alright fair enough I can roll with that. Any direction on how to begin to understand how to use NinjaTrader and get started, I've read you can sim trade to start maybe that would be the place to start.
The following user says Thank You to Dalton14 for this post:
Sim trading is the biggest scam ever perpetuated by the trading industry upon new traders.
Only use sim to learn how to click the buy/sell button and how to set stops and targets. Other than learning the platform, sim trading is a complete waste of time and will negatively affect your trading if and when you go live.
You can skip your phone call. You already landed in the right place by finding this site. Pony up for the Elite membership and take the next few weeks reading through this site. There is a tremendous amount of content here. Some outstanding, some not so much but it's a far greater value than what you'd pay for any course.
The following user says Thank You to TheShrike for this post:
Thanks for the replies guys.. really helpful to have a community of people that aren't asking for 3k to just help me out. I think I'll just try playing around with NT for now (See if I can get the sim going to at least understand the platform) and at the very least get the elite membership here..
The following user says Thank You to Dalton14 for this post:
I would try out Sierra Charts before committing to NinjaTrader... I've been a NT user for a decade and recently tried Sierra because I want Market Profile data at a good price... Sierra runs circles around NT in capabilities and performance. Lots of support from various firms, in particular Infinity Futures.
My best advice would be to ask yourself if you are willing to commit a LOT of time (years) to this without making money, and likely losing money, from it. This is a world class competition for money and you should fully appreciate that. If you still think it's something you want to pursue, then I would get an elite membership here and start reading and watching webinars, I'm partial to FuturesTrader71 stuff, he also does a traderbite live on youtube every morning where he lays out his views. Also:
- Start watching the markets, get a feel for how things move.
- Start a journal, get in the habit of recording what you learn every day.
- Don't watch financial "news" (entertainment), it's just mental pollution, and you will need your own insights to trade.
- Definitely stay away from indicators.
- There are no shortcuts, don't get swindled.
The following user says Thank You to New Level for this post:
Yes, you will need a charting platform and a data feed, when I started I just opened a TDA account and got think or swim with data for free, and still use it for some stuff. I wouldn't get overly invested in any one package yet though, there may be reasons to go one way or another depending on where your path leads you.
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
Posts: 2,271 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 7,181 given,
4,406
received
At a certain level the platform one chooses ceases to matter IMHO as they are all very good and I feel it gets into splitting hairs given you are using a standalone platform again IMHO not something for some broker save Thinkorswim or Interactive Brokers. So the likes of Trade Station, Ninjatrader, Sierra, OEC and many other standalones. So I say if you find something that floats your boat go with it. Just commit.
Next you need data. But above all you need cash. Money you don't need for life. This money is going to be the life blood of your business. Think about this life blood. If you had a low level of blood in your body how healthy would you be? How alive? How vibrant of a person would/could you be? You would be sickly. Low energy....pale. Your immune system could not function well and you would be ill. Many traders have tiny accounts, low levels of life blood. So it dominates over everything they do. They try to scalp markets risking 1 2 or 3 ticks because they can't afford to lose their blood or they will die. Because they have such a small amount of blood to start with. They have to be right almost 100% of the time (well, they feel they do because they don't understand this is a probability game one needs to retrain themselves to think like this to make this business work everywhere in life before trading you do better when you are correct about "things" ie school you get A's work you get promoted but if you keep trying to be right in the market you go broke, you will lose much much more than just the money you opened the account with due to margin calls) because when wrong a bit they are done, bloods all gone just like in the human body if you bleed out thats it man.
So a lot of what you do depends on how much capital you have to start with if its a small amount (nothing wrong about that just be real about it don't lie to yourself) futures is not a good idea save for something like this and only this FX Products or micro spot FX with a honest broker (extremely hard to find as many will trade against you taking the other side of your trades as they know the success rate is very low so to them its a great trade etc) The idea being with these two: E-micro forex Futures a CME product and spot forex (FX = Forex = foreign exchange = currency pairs ie USD/EUR) is they have very low per tick (smallest price increment, in FX this is called a pip I say tick because I trade Index Futures and Interest Rate Futures CME products and stock pairs) dollar value. So you can risk a small amount to see if your idea for a trade works or it does not work. And not lose to much of this precious life blood. Stock might be an option to trade because you control the tick size, so to speak, yourself with the number of shares you trade. Problem here is the $25k minimum pattern day trading rule. I am making the assumption here, and please for give me, that perhaps you don't have a large amount of cash for trading based entirely off of past interactions here at futures.io with new people to this business and from reading your posts.
Anyway dive in and learn. I leave you with a quote from a book I won here from a @Big Mike quiz at the end of one of many many amazing webinars, the best trading learning set of webinars on the planet as far as I'm concerned so be sure and become Elite. From "Trade Like A Casino" by Richard L Weissman.
Ron
...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
The following 7 users say Thank You to Blash for this post:
Welcome. This are key points to successfull trading.
Ask yourself "Do i have PC, internet, place and so on"
Also evaluate every aspect from 1 to 10 on how good this aspect for you. For ex: trading method 8 if you are a good trader.
The following user says Thank You to bloom for this post:
First off, I think every trader with any real experience can relate to your problem. You're in the position where you really don't even know what you don't know! By that I mean that you'll have to be shown what is really important in trading, and WHY. You undoubtedly have some basic misconceptions and incorrect assumptions that you'll need to unlearn. Then you have to begin the journey of discovering/creating a way of trading that fits you (one size does not fit all). That journey is likely to be emotionally painful, because if you rely on totally free info on the internet, the lessons are likely to be expensive anyway (i.e., account drawdowns).
If I were to ask you whether you want to daytrade or swing trade or position trade, how would you really know which you prefer? At this point, the only clue you might have would be based on your misconceptions/assumptions; thus, what you THINK is actually likely to be wrong for YOU. If you intend to learn how to trade by daytrading, I can tell you that you're almost guaranteed intense suffering PSYCHOLOGICALLY, especially if you NEED to succeed to pay your bills. The shorter the timeframe you trade, the more you will have to deal with your inner demons, so psychology will be the most important aspect of your trading - so that means you'd have to spend some money for that particular issue, with psychological trainers who specialize in trading psychology.
The most cost effective basic course I've ever purchased was from Top Dog Trading (Foundations Course 1 & 2, bought together as a discounted bundle - yes, do get both). It covers all the bases to some extent, and really is a good way to get started. It's not glitzy, but it's a bargain. All course promoters are indeed promoters who tend toward hype, but some are actually in the business of providing real value. This seems to be one of the good ones.
Some good stuff being laid out in front of you here. I am not familair with the Art of Trading course, but if it helps you to "learn the lingo" so to speak then great, but it won't help you trade, nor will it give you an advantage.
The webinars on this forum however will help you greatly, as will this forum itself. However, the only person that can help your trading is you.
DO NOT SIM TRADE. Only SIM to learn the execution of your platform. I am sure some people will disagree with me here, but do not get caught up in the world of SIM. You need to be making and losing real money. Not fantasy make believe money than can be reset at the end of the day.
I have seen a number of new "traders" on this forum whom are new to trading and start off making thousands of $$$'s SIM trading and chat about how easy trading is and how easy it will be to transition to real money in a pinch. And when they do start using real money, poof, you never hear from them again. Probably because they are all millionaires right?
Lean on this forum. There are hundreds of traders able and willing to give advice.
Don't think you have to rush it. The markets will ALWAYS be there. It will take you a VERY LONG TIME (think years) to be in profit, and there will be many bumps in the road.
Start a journal on here.
--------------------------------------------------------
- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
--------------------------------------------------------
You will not learn to trade by reading books, sure books and forums like this will give you the basic concepts and principles of trading but no book or forum will give you the boots on the ground, skin in the game experience which is the only way to become a successful trader.
What will make you successful (especially day trading futures) as others have stated is years of screen time watching the market move tick by tick. Not using canned indicators or trading rooms to make trading decisions, indicators should only be used for secondary confirmations if at all.
As with all human endeavors there are customs (traditional and widely accepted ways of behaving or doing things) in the way the market behaves. Your task as a trader is to learn these ways the market behaves and at the same time learn how to filter out and deal with the constant random nature of the market the best you can. No book/forum/course to my knowledge (with the possible exception of a successful mentor) will teach you these things.
As for sim trading there are differing opinions on its usefulness. Some think its an absolute worthless thing to do others think there is some merit to it. I am in the latter camp, especially if you do not have a boat load of money to throw at the market.
It is true that success at sim trading does not automatically translate to real trading, it is also true that if you cannot trade successfully in sim you will lose money in real trading, a lot of money and quickly. With very rare exceptions new traders lose money for a long time. When I started trading futures I at one point lost 23 trades in a row (must be a world record), I wish I was trading in sim then, now I routinely go 20 days in a row without a losing day. As long a you use sim trading as a transitional stage, not making it a paper trading career and realize when you do go live your results will drop off until you master the psychology of trading real money. Sim trading will help you learn the mechanics of trading and give you some idea of whether or not your method works without blowing your account.
Bottom line is to expect it to take a lot of time and effort to become successful, on the same order of time and effort as going to school for a new career.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Seahn for this post:
Sim trading is a tool you can use to learn to trade. It depends on how you use the tool as to whether it works or not.
Don’t even consider going live unless you can be consistently profitable with a demo account.
Make sure to get a demo account that uses real time data.
Use a demo account not only to learn the basics of making a trade but also to forward test your strategies.
Evaluate your trades as successes or failures by whether you followed you plan or not.
Start with the same amount of capital in the Sim account as you will be funding a live account with.
Expect slippage to be greater when you go live.
If you feel it is necessary to have skin in the game get a stack of $20 bills. Every time you don’t follow your plan, stop trading, leave your computer and give $20 to a complete stranger.
"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
The following 2 users say Thank You to deaddog for this post:
topdogtrading is all material that can be found for free. There are old reviews out there. If you are going to spend money on some lessons, start out with Al Brook's video course. You won't become profitable from just the material, but it's a starting point on learning "market structure". A cheaper recommendation would be Dalton's "Markets in Profile" which can be ten bucks used as well as the free webinar videos here on BMT or on BMT's channel on youtube. Also check out tradingschools.org and the comments by the victims just to have an idea of how most all trading rooms have hosts who won't prove they trade live. You'll be shocked at how many thousands of newbies were taken for thousands even tens of thousands by fraudulent vendors some of them former convicted felons.
1. Find a good mentor. Ask to see their trading statements (live funds not demo). If you are comfortable with learning the to mimic the same outcome (returns and draw down risk), convince them to take you on board as a trainee, probably offering to pay them a good amount of money for their efforts. Could you probably become a competent chef by watching a bunch of you tube video and sorting through which ones are good and bad by yourself? Probably. Would it be better to apprentice under a world class chef instead? Probably.
2. Don't obsess too much about platforms. You should be a competent trader regardless of the platform. Unless you're getting into algorithmic trading, at your level, deciding between different platforms is like debating between dating blondes or brunettes. Pros and cons to both. Slight nuances in how they look, but at the end of the day, the mechanics of dating are still the same.
3. Take a good personality test. (None of that Meyer's Brigg rubbish). I mean a top of the line personality assessment inventory to help you determine what type of trading style will be most compatible. Is your personality more suitable for trading multiple instruments or a single instrument? Is your level of focus and patience more suitable for scalping or swing trading?
The following 2 users say Thank You to MacroNinja for this post:
I have been doing lots of research about brokerage firms as I live in Trinidad and Tobago and this website is the only of 2 online one that allows me to open an account (Interactive brokers minimum is too much for me US$10000.). My account was opened promptly however I need to now fund it, but am doing some additional due diligence (major investment with the exchange) prior to that last step ( exchange is US$1 to TT$6.51)
Is there anything I should be aware of doing business with them? I am a non resident and my options are limited or almost non existent, if I want to go ahead with trading on the US stock market.
I am a small player, just trying to get my feet wet.
I just wanted to share my experiences with this futures firm.
My experience with them has been absolutely horrible. These guys truly do not know what they're doing. They've been holding on to my application for 3 weeks now. I've never seen …
