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VW scandal and impact on German economy


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VW scandal and impact on German economy

  #441 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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VW fraud trial against 4 engineers begins in Braunschweig (Germany) Sep 16

The fraud trial in the VW diesel scandal will begin without former CEO Martin Winterkorn. The proceedings against the 74-year-old will be separated due to his health condition, the Regional Court of Braunschweig announced on Thursday. This means that the main trial in one of the biggest industrial scandals of recent years will start next week (16 September) against the four co-defendant VW managers alone. The issue before the court is who is responsible for the manipulation of millions of diesel emissions, which was discovered in the USA almost six years ago to the day.

Prognosis not possible

The public prosecutor accuses Winterkorn and four other VW managers of having known about the diesel manipulations. They have to answer for gang-related fraud and other criminal offences (Ref: 6 KLs 23/19). In similar proceedings before the Munich Regional Court, former Audi boss Rupert Stadler and three other managers of the VW subsidiary have already been on trial for a year.

It has not yet been determined when the trial against Winterkorn can begin. The court said that it was not possible at present to predict when Winterkorn would be fully fit to stand trial again, or at least to a limited extent, after a recent operation. In any case, the total duration of the proceedings would not double as a result of the separation. If the end of the trial against the four co-defendants had been awaited, the trial against Winterkorn would probably not begin until the second half of 2023.

In September 2015, under pressure from the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Volkswagen admitted to having manipulated millions of diesel exhaust emissions by means of a defeat device. This ensures that diesel emissions comply with the nitrogen oxide limits on the test bench, but emit many times more of these toxic emissions on the road.* The reparations have so far cost Volkswagen more than 32 billion euros, mainly in fines and compensation payments in the USA.

*addendum by GFIs1:
- emissions on the road were measured 35 times above the given limits.

translated from a German Newspaper

Some more Info on this (New german TV video):
https://www.ardaudiothek.de/sendung/winterkorn-und-seine-ingenieure/92870586

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  #442 (permalink)
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Davis13 View Post
yankee wants that VW, Bmw and Mercedes fail down because they sell too many cars instead of american carmakers that are worse than germans...

Non e vero Davide 13
The theme is about the climate, the given restrictions and the car makers that are searching criminal ways to "fulfill" so called actual terms.
Instead effectively the German car makers steered around those restrictions with evil. So no mercy for the criminals - they shall be warned and have to pay for blinding people and states.
We can look forward to the trials in Germany - starting right now in the case of VW - see articles above.
From my point of view I see some hard verdicts for different car makers in Europe - as they tried to hide behind all other. Now it is too late to give in and trying to circumvent the big threats. Everyone knows about the copy/paste in the motor software as there are just some large companies delivering the components also for the 'cheating' cars.
Please follow carefully the trials that are ongoing in Europe - especially in Italy too (see autobus da campeggio aka camping buses) - as well as in USA. The final story is not written yet.

GFIs1

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  #443 (permalink)
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Davis13 View Post
it is only a geopolitical affair...why only diesel that is the best engine so far and not gasoline??? also the ecars are not so green as they are trying to persuade people...

The 2 to 3t vehicules with ONE person inside, parked 23 hours per day - that is the problem. We need to have new transportation ideas though. And without fossil energy. Otherwise there is nothing done against the climate change.

So - the cheating car makers have give back the illegal gains: their strategy didn't work properly. Worldwide.

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New Turn in German Judicial Rulings by the Courts

The Schleswig-Holstein Administrative Court has dismissed a claim for the issue of a Tüv inspection sticker for an unmodified type-approved Skoda Yeti with a 2.0 TDI engine. The car did not comply with the type approval due to illegal deactivation of the exhaust gas purification system and therefore had a significant defect, judge Uwe Karstens ruled as a single judge. In other words, in his opinion, all 2.5 million scandal cars from the VW group were on the road illegally from the beginning. The authorities could and probably should have taken them out of circulation immediately. ...
This means that the owner of the vehicle is no longer allowed to drive it.
The plaintiff can now only apply for leave to appeal to the Higher Administrative Court in Schleswig-Holstein. To do so, however, he would have to hire and pay a lawyer. He will be left with the costs if his application for admission or the later appeal fails.
Schleswig-Holstein Administrative Court, judgement of 13.08.2021

File number: 3 A 310/20 (not yet legally binding)

Translated from a German Diesel scandal site

GFIs1

addendum: EU rules about this theme is very clear: all defeat devices are forbidden - if so the vehicles need to be taken out of traffic. BUT - the action has to be taken by each country...

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  #445 (permalink)
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The tricks of defeat devices

For almost 20 years, software with or without sensors has been regulating the engine's exhaust gas treatment. The low exhaust gas values can usually not be met by combustion engines. By switching off the exhaust gas treatment, the engine lets the soot particles as well as CO2, methane and other elements out of the exhaust, prevents sooting or stalling. With Adblue, the exhaust gases can be made largely toxin-free. However, Adblue needs to be refilled at shorter intervals - refuelled like petrol or diesel. Adblue is also not cheap.

The tricks of the German car manufacturers

VW (first with the EA189 engine) recognises the test bench mode by means of sensors in the steering wheel. If there is no steering movement for a short time, the exhaust gas treatment works perfectly. As soon as there is steering, the vehicle appears to be on the road - the exhaust gas treatment is switched off. Such a VW emits 35 times the amount of negative emissions permitted by law. The same applies to all brands of the VW Group. The electronic groups are supplied by the big suppliers such as Bosch.

FIAT makes it even simpler: For the test mode, the engine must be heated up to operating temperature before the test. Then the test cycle takes place for exactly 20 minutes. FIAT has installed a timer which switches off all exhaust gas aftertreatment after exactly 22 minutes after reaching operating temperature....

Fortunately, in future, for the approval of an engine, the tests will take place on the road under normal conditions.
For this reason, combustion engines no longer have a future. Means - car manufacturers must resort to alternatives.
At last there are a growing number of cities that don't allow combustion engines to drive into the centers...

GFIs1

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Davis13 View Post
this is what yankee say...maybe it is like saddam hussein weapons...

The article above I wrote is all about EU-rules, German, French and Italian laws. Has nothing to do with USA.

VW alone paid 33+ billion for the scandal until now. Some VW people are / were in prison, some others are at or before a severe trial about responsibility in the scandal.
And most important: some VW (Ex) members are no longer allowed to cross the border as there are international arrest warrants waiting for them...

The largest business scam in Europe (especially in Germany) is not over yet.

At last a personal word to you: if you buy a Diesel now (new or used), which is up to you, a strong depreciation on the car must be calculated in on the first day. And you might only drive for 2 years and then the TÜV doesn't prolong the license. Think about.

GFIs1

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EUGH (ECJ) sees thermal windows in diesel proceedings as criminal

The Advocate General at the European Court of Justice (ECJ) classifies the thermal windows in the diesel proceedings against Volkswagen and Porsche as unlawful. The Advocate General stated in his closing argument on Thursday that the exhaust systems of the car manufacturers violate European law. Such a device could not be justified by the protection of the engine from damage or accident and the safe operation of the vehicle, if its primary purpose was to protect add-on parts.

Advocate General Athanasios Rantos pointed out that the thermal window was not representative of actual driving conditions. The control system intervenes when the outside temperature is below 15 degrees and above 33 degrees, as well as when driving in the mountains above 1000 metres altitude, and throttles or stops the exhaust gas purification.

Rantos pointed out that average temperatures from 2017 to 2019 in Austria, Germany and other European countries had been well below 15 degrees. Moreover, due to the topography of Austria and Germany, cars often travel at altitudes of more than 1000 metres.

The software therefore reduces the effectiveness of the emission control system under normal conditions of use and normal vehicle operation and constitutes a "defeat device".

Admittedly, exceptions to the prohibition of defeat devices are permitted if this can protect the engine and ensure the safe operation of the vehicle, the Advocate General went on to explain. A defeat device that primarily serves to protect parts such as the exhaust gas recirculation valve, the EGR cooler or the diesel particulate filter does not fall under this.

The judges at the ECJ often follow the Advocate General's line of argument, but are not bound by it. In December, five years after the Volkswagen diesel scandal, the judges had issued a landmark ruling on the use of exhaust gas software in diesel cars.

They ruled that the general ban on the use of software to manipulate exhaust emissions would be undermined if it were possible to protect the engine from pollution and wear by means of exemptions.

Manufacturers exploited loopholes in EU law by throttling or completely switching off the exhaust gas purification of diesel engines at cool temperatures. Almost all carmakers use thermal windows and argue for this on the grounds of engine protection.

(AZ. C-128/20, C-134/20 and C-145/20)

translated from a Swiss Newspaper from today

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@Davis13

The theme of this thread is about the VW Diesel scandal and impact on German economy. All my postings are about the findings in Europe. As already stated several times - it has nothing to do directly with USA. Even if the company had to pay the BIG sum to USA. As the trials are still going on and the final effects on the economy are not yet all visible, I think to proceed the protocols with latest court results.
This is the most important for our trading community here.
Please help to support this thread with substantial input. Thanks!

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Davis13 has been permanently banned and his posts deleted for unacceptable language.

One post by another user had to be deleted because it innocently quoted the post containing the language.

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Get new Motorhome (FIAT/Stellantis) instead of your recently bought illegal one: FOR FREE!

Another consumer-friendly ruling in the Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA, now Stellantis) emissions scandal: This time, the Oldenburg Regional Court ordered the dealer to redeliver a motorhome - without compensation for use. Here is a brief summary of the current judgement:

The plaintiff bought a motorhome from the manufacturer Hymer in January 2020 for 69,900 euros. The Exsis T 768 model is equipped with a 2.3-litre engine with 150 hp of Euronorm 6b typical for the Fiat Ducato base vehicle. The engine code is: F1AGL411C.

According to the law firm, the Multijet engines have been designed in such a way that the legally required exhaust gas aftertreatment is deactivated approximately 22 minutes after each engine start**. Since the test run on an exhaust emission test bench lasts only about 20 minutes, the deactivation of the exhaust aftertreatment leads to the impression in the test situation that the vehicle complies with the legally prescribed minimum limit value for NOx quantities for vehicles of the Euro 6 class. In fact, the real exhaust emission behaviour is 19 times higher and thus considerably exceeds the limit value. This has been shown by several investigations of the Deutsche Umwelthilfe (German Environmental Aid) on motor homes with the Euro 5 and Euro 6 exhaust emission standards.

Since the vehicle is still under the two-year warranty, Stellantis and the dealer were sued. The dealer must now provide the buyer with a defect-free, brand-new replacement vehicle of the same type from the current series production of the manufacturer Hymer with similar and equivalent technical equipment. Stellantis is also ordered to pay damages.

Translated from a trial charge from Sep 22 2021

** see my earlier posts on this theme

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