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VW scandal and impact on German economy
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VW scandal and impact on German economy

  #81 (permalink)
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Some questions can be answered with simple logic.

(1) Volkswagen engineers cheated, because they were not able to meet the NOx emission standards with their main Diesel engine EA 189 back in 2008. I bet that it would have been impossible to meet the lower US limits without adding expensive NOx storage devices and/or SCR devices which require Diesel exhaust fluid.

(2) Since 2008 there has been technical progress in reducing NOx emissions from Diesel engines. The newer EURO 6 norm imposes lower NOx limits than the old EURO 5 norm. It should therefore be relatitely simple to retrofit the cars in Europe to comply with the specifications that they had to meet.

(3) For the 8 million cars running in Europe it should therefore be possible to fix the problem

-> via a software update (cheap, but probably limited to engines with Bosch equipment)
-> via a hardware upgrade (including Diesel injection equipment)
-> via retrofit of NOx storage converters (expensive)

Of course I am not able to judge which type of upgrade will be necessary. Also I am not able to judge which will be the impact on fuel consumption and horse power, and whether this will require to compensate customers.

(4) Things will be more difficult in the US, as I doubt that there will be an easy technical fix. The target is much more difficult to attain. Also US jurisdiction is unpredictable, and often ridiculous. Therefore Volkswagen has a much higher risk from the 480,000 cars sold in the US compared to the 9 million cars sold elsewhere.

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  #82 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
Some questions can be answered with simple logic.

(1) Volkswagen engineers cheated, because they were not able to meet the NOx emission standards with their main Diesel engine EA 189 back in 2008. I bet that it would have been impossible to meet the lower US limits without adding expensive NOx storage devices and/or SCR devices which require Diesel exhaust fluid.

(2) Since 2008 there has been technical progress in reducing NOx emissions from Diesel engines. The newer EURO 6 norm imposes lower NOx limits than the old EURO 5 norm. It should therefore be relatitely simple to retrofit the cars in Europe to comply with the specifications that they had to meet.

(3) For the 8 million cars running in Europe it should therefore be possible to fix the problem

-> via a software update (cheap, but probably limited to engines with Bosch equipment)
-> via a hardware upgrade (including Diesel injection equipment)
-> via retrofit of NOx storage converters (expensive)

Of course I am not able to judge which type of upgrade will be necessary. Also I am not able to judge which will be the impact on fuel consumption and horse power, and whether this will require to compensate customers.

(4) Things will be more difficult in the US, as I doubt that there will be an easy technical fix. The target is much more difficult to attain. Also US jurisdiction is unpredictable, and often ridiculous. Therefore Volkswagen has a much higher risk from the 480,000 cars sold in the US compared to the 9 million cars sold elsewhere.

I scratch my head about the possibility of getting this retrofit done in the time frame stated by VW...it will be an amazing feat for VW's supply base. If there is equipment to be added, not just software, then VW is asking their supply base to produce an extra 8 million odd units in less then a year over their current daily production requirements. Some one will be working weekends & holidays....

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  #83 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
Of course I am not able to judge which type of upgrade will be necessary. Also I am not able to judge which will be the impact on fuel consumption and horse power, and whether this will require to compensate customers.

Even we are not experts in this fields we need to see the facts:
1) EU is having quite strict rules for admitting new products in the markets (EU first)
2) the guarantees for a manufacturer are now 2 years in all countries (which makes it harder for "cheap products"
3) the jurisdiction lately on fake products of such that do not meet regulations is now much more for the client
than the manufacturer
4) some very high fines can be seen in the last 5 years (even accepted by highest courts) be it in financial area
or manufacturing
5) if it comes to compensation in case of a single VW out of that series
- with wrong data given - than measured
- with less worth for resale
- with a threat of giving back tax reduction on the model or subvention to the state
- with the undergoing inspections / reparations when you can not use the car
etc...
Looking at all this (list not complete) one sees that the manufacturer has to fill IN the box what he writes ON the box.
If he does not - then compensation for ONE car can be very high - IN EUROPE.
And such one law case can be the number to be multiplied by all concerned models...

GFIs1

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  #84 (permalink)
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More and more unraveling:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/business/international/volkswagen-diesel-emiss...top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Bob.

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  #86 (permalink)
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I think 98% of the involved VW customers are more concerned about a loss in power and dynamic. The don't care about the emissions. So the hype isn't backed by the car owners.

But i think VW owners can buy the old firmware back at later time from tuning related companies. Then this will be the most heavily tested chip tuning firmware ever.

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  #87 (permalink)
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That one looks exactly like the car my son is driving. It is over 20 years old and has a gasoline engine.

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  #88 (permalink)
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German police entered VW headquarters today, in search of documents and computer equipment
that can hold proof, of who is responsible for installing the fraude software in the cars...

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  #89 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
That one looks exactly like the car my son is driving. It is over 20 years old and has a gasoline engine.

Get used to these memes and comments, they will never go away... Makes no difference if they are accurate or not, VW screwed up.

Mike

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  #90 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Get used to these memes and comments, they will never go away... Makes no difference if they are accurate or not, VW screwed up.

Mike

I was making fun of it ....

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