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VW scandal and impact on German economy


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VW scandal and impact on German economy

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  #11 (permalink)
 sam028 
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tturner86 View Post
I don't understand why they just didn't keep the firmware running at all times? Why only run it during test?

When the optimization for low emission was on the horse-power was low.

If VW did it, and if you know a bit about how smart can be the "firmware", I really don't see why the others haven't done the same thing.

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 rleplae 
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tturner86 View Post
I don't understand why they just didn't keep the firmware running at all times? Why only run it during test?

The delivered power is not the same
On the heat different
Combustion different hence not an option..

Question?
How to fix ?
If the design is NOK ?

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 rleplae 
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sam028 View Post
, I really don't see why the others haven't done the same thing.

Who said they didn't
Is like doping in sport....
In my opinion.




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 tturner86 
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bobwest View Post
Because it reduces the performance and gas mileage. I have heard it phrased that they decided they could either make "a clean car or a fun car," and that they chose the one that would sell more.

Then they had to fake the clean part for the regulators, but turn it off for the drivers.

Bob.


sam028 View Post
When the optimization for low emission was on the horse-power was low.

If VW did it, and if you know a bit about how smart can be the "firmware", I really don't see why the others haven't done the same thing.


rleplae View Post
The delivered power is not the same
On the heat different
Combustion different hence not an option..

Question?
How to fix ?
If the design is NOK ?

SO during the emissions test they couldn't determine the motor wasn't running at spec?

@sam028 other companies may have, which is even scarier... Think if Ford, Toyota, Honda, and GM all dropped the same bombshell...

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 bobwest 
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sam028 View Post
When the optimization for low emission was on the horse-power was low.

If VW did it, and if you know a bit about how smart can be the "firmware", I really don't see why the others haven't done the same thing.

We don't know, of course, that they have not done it.

Apparently, the game of fooling emissions testing has gone on for a long time; they are called "defeat devices" and there is history of them, with many manufacturers: Volkswagen emissions defeat device and past offenses by Honda, GM and Ford .

Due to computer advances, it's now simpler. Just write some code.

Bob.

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sam028 View Post
When the optimization for low emission was on the horse-power was low.

If VW did it, and if you know a bit about how smart can be the "firmware", I really don't see why the others haven't done the same thing.

The blatant deception is more concerning. This is willful deceit. Any company capable of this level of fraud for this long probably has more bodies buried in the closet...

Mike

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 Fat Tails 
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NOx and toxic emissions from Diesel cars

The problem is about NOx emissions caused by Diesel cars.

Below are two recent studies showing that a number of manufacturers have problems complying with the recent norms.

I believe that many people within the automotive industry were aware of the problem and knew what was going on.


VW facing risk of insolvency

VW has a particular problem because of its size and its market share in Diesel cars.

The group might well face the equivalent to chapter 11, as

-> they are going to face claims by 480.000 US customers
-> there will have to deal with about 2.8 million German customers
-> total amount sold of Diesel cars with EA 198 engine is over 11 million cars
-> who will buy a Diesel cars manufactured by VW group over the next 12 months ?

US limits for NOx are lower than in Europe (31 versus 80 mg/km)


Future of Diesel cars uncertain

The two reports attached shows that the NOx pollution caused by Diesel cars is not yet easily controlled. If it was, NOx emissions would be lower than actual. Also there is a trade-off between NOx and CO2 emissions. Diesel engine allow for lower CO2 emissions, but have higher NOX emissions. Diesel cars are good for the global climate, but they are not good for the climate in our cities.

The US has always been more reluctant to accept Diesel cars than Europeans. Here is a link to the Report On Diesel Exhausts from 1998.

The Report on Diesel Exhaust

France and Spain have the highest shares of Diesel PKWs in Europe (about 64% of new cars in 2014). The share in Germany is below 50%. Compare this to a share of below 3% in the US.


Emission problem in European Cities

The limits for NOX in the European Union are 40 micrograms per cubic meter. And here comes the problem. Many cities have an average level above the limit. The only way to fix this problem, is to remove all Diesel cars from the cities.

Attached Thumbnails
VW scandal and impact on German economy-icct_pems-study_diesel-cars_20141013.pdf   VW scandal and impact on German economy-icct_nox-control-tech_revised-09152015.pdf  
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 Fat Tails 
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As a note. The VW scandal relates to a Diesel engine which is no longer manufactured.

The German automotive association (ADAC) has recently (published in September 2015) tested NOx emissions from a variety of cars.

Below is a table showing all cars that do not comply with the European standards (80 mg/km) under a test called WLTC 2.0. This test is more realistic than the current tests used by European authorities, but has no legal implications. As you will notice all manufacturers have cars that exceed maximum allowable emissions by a factor up to 16. Landrover, Nissan, Volvo and Renault are leading the pack.


VW scandal and impact on German economy-eco-test-2_246818-1.pdf

The cars listed are those exceeding the limit. The limit is the zeroline.

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 PeakGrowth 
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You literally know everything @Fat Tails it's almost scary.

I think VW will go under, or broken up and sold for parts.

This is bad, I got 3 VW's in the family and one of them is diesel, my almost 3 yr old niece rolls in the diesel

This could be the end of diesel, if every authority around the world retests all diesels from all manufacturers in real world tests (and not on rollers) and they find they are all doing it - I wouldn't be surprised if they all are to some degree.

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 rleplae 
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In Belgium there are 500.000 cars with the suspect (EA 189) diesel-engine that could be manipulated.

It is yet unclear how many effectively have that software loaded.
Belgium is a Diesel country, as 3.4 million out of 5.6 million cars are equipped with a diesel engine.

Official investigation has started by the FOD economy (federal agency)
Government has asked VW to articulate a compensation plan

This IS going to hurt VW ...
If it become too big, they probably will file Ch 11 or something alike...

Good for Elon Musk from Tesla who visited Antwerp yesterday.

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