What I wish I would have known when I got started. - futures io
futures io futures trading



What I wish I would have known when I got started.


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated by raining
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one mattz with 7 posts (21 thanks)
    2. looks_two DeadCatBounced with 6 posts (229 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Big Mike with 5 posts (47 thanks)
    4. looks_4 bbgg91 with 3 posts (9 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one DeadCatBounced with 38.2 thanks per post
    2. looks_two WISDOM with 21.0 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Big Mike with 9.4 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 mattz with 3.0 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 30,793 views
    2. thumb_up 478 thanks given
    3. group 107 followers
    1. forum 97 replies
    2. attach_file 0 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 100,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

What I wish I would have known when I got started.

(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 48,913 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 31,587 given, 94,545 received


Itchymoku View Post
I'd probably give up trading altogether if it meant I had a loving wife.

Damn Itchy, that's deep.



Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Cumulative Bid/Ask Chart resets after 2Billion
MultiCharts
there may be some data error in TS
TradeStation
Moving Trendline within day range
EasyLanguage Programming
DataLoader- incorrect cumulative values for other symbols
MultiCharts
Scan by comparing SMAs within 5 mins
ThinkOrSwim
 
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
Site Moderator
Portland, Oregon
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Trading: GBU-39
 
tturner86's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,152 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 10,428 given, 12,490 received


Big Mike View Post
Damn Itchy, that's deep.



Mike

Itchys a lover not a fighter...

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
Sydney
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: E signal
Broker: AMP, Stage 5
Trading: AP -SFE; FESX; ES; 6A, 6N,6E,6B,6C,6J
 
Posts: 42 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 20 given, 30 received



DeadCatBounced View Post
Yeah, I also tend to fall strongly into the first category. I think this goes back to the way I went through school - I was home-schooled through roughly two thirds of grades 1-9 due to my family travelling overseas. By the time I went to high school I firmly believed I could learn on my own faster and better then what the teacher was teaching.

When I first got started in trading I had an experience with a vendor - ironically it didn't cost me anything but I feel I learned many thousands of dollars worth of education from it! Quite simply a guy I met wanted me to help build his website / run his email for him and in return he would teach me his "system". It took me about 1 month of watching this guy and tracking his results to realize that he wasn't making any money from his trading and wanted to make money from teaching people how to trade....

After being on the inside of that it was easy for me to just automatically discount all other vendors. Maybe I am being too harsh and there are good vendors out there I just automatically have assumed the worst. Part of why I have loved FIO(yes I typed BMT first hah) is that the information in webinars is just sitting there for you to take in at your own pace, AND if you have the time to go through peoples journals and see the result of many common ideas being played out... It is fairly easy to take away what works, doesnt work.



Yeah I see this as well and it seems insane to me.

I probably should take the time to respond more in-depth to @Zentrader2010.

Two points I guess. 1. I think there has been many tons of electronic ink spent on this forum about the psychological effects of trading an over leveraged account. Mortgaging an asset I have already just to have a larger account to work with I do not think would make that psychological pressure any easier.

2. I completely disagree with mortgaging a house / business / whatever the asset may be to provide funds for trading. Being in my late 20's and newly married I think it is important to place myself on a path towards financial success. My wife and I do have a house that we are slowly renovating (I did alot of work on it while we were engaged). For me to reach my financial goals I want to go about it in a number of different paths. Buying a house and not paying rent is one way to put money back in my own pocket.

Taking a 2nd mortgage on the house to finance trading related goals is simply too risky and not a path I am willing to do (My wife actually brought this up just so we could talk about it but neither of us want to do this.)

Saving up $100k for example there are a few other financial goals that would go along with it. We have a small business idea that needs startup capital. Both of us come from families that have done reasonably well flipping houses / gaining rental income etc, I am handy enough to do the work on these types of projects. I guess what I am saying is that I am at a point where I want to put a number of different seeds into the ground and lets see what comes up. Mortgaging an asset to double down on trading isn't something that I am comfortable with.

Hi,
I'm not sure you've really thought this through properly....I mean, I've been there and done it so to speak being 20 years your senior...however my marriage ended in divorce so perhaps my dedication to trading made her an 'internet widow'
Anyway - What is the real practical difference between
a) having a mortgage and putting all your spare earnings into it to pay it down faster or
b) paying what your bank expects you to pay in the 20 year repayments every month, and saving your 100 K cash aside in a separate account.
They only difference is that in example a) you just re-withdraw the 100K and start paying some interest whilst you use it trading....compared to b) you have NOT placed this 100K against your mortgage account so you have not payed down the monthly interest expense in favor of cash account interest (Why it's lower?) so you end up paying more interest anyway, and you are actually doing exactly the same thing ( think carefully about it)....
If you've ever traded options, you know that in the options formula, the interest money you are saving when you buy a call option rather than the outright stock ( A lot more $$$$) is charged to you via the options premium anyway.....no such thing as a free lunch buddy.....so you're not really saving your mortgage by not paying towards it in favor of an off-set account......
SO???? a) and b ) are equiv. in practical money terms why do you FEEL better doing b)??? YOu're just choosing to delay paying down a) anyway which is not actually sensible because you pay the bank more interest over time.
So just trade your line of credit......it's better actually because if trading becomes your business the interest becomes a tax deductible expense and you save about 30c in the $1 compared to version b) where you pay tax on interest earned......
Regards,
One whose done exactly what you did, but just payed down my mortgage and got a line of credit rather than keep it in cash ( same difference as you now owe the bank more via the mortgage anyway da da da )....

Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Zentrader2010 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
TUCSON, AZ/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJATRADER
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 11 since Mar 2014
Thanks: 1 given, 36 received

I wonder how many people on this site that need to face the fact that they need to stop trading. My last trade was in January of this year. I was attempting to make a living in the futures market and nearly lost everything in the process. There was nothing wrong with my method. Nearly every mistake was a mental error--pure psychology. I traded a minimum of 5 contracts and as much as 40. I can't count the number of times I had to re-fund my account.

I do plan to return to trading one day. I still paper trade (very successfully), but now I am working full time to rebuild my savings. My top 7 learnings are:

1. Master support and resistance
2. Limit indicators to the bare minimum
3. Stay away from short time intervals and use the dominate one for the market your are trading
4. Control your emotions
5. Be very patient and let the market come to you
6. Maintain a detailed journal
7. Learn when to stop trading short term and permanently ( I should have stopped much sooner).

I firmly believe there are, relatively, a small group of traders that can make a good living trading interday futures. I was not one of them. Are you?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 48,913 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 31,587 given, 94,545 received


WISDOM View Post
I wonder how many people on this site that need to face the fact that they need to stop trading. My last trade was in January of this year. I was attempting to make a living in the futures market and nearly lost everything in the process. There was nothing wrong with my method. Nearly every mistake was a mental error--pure psychology. I traded a minimum of 5 contracts and as much as 40. I can't count the number of times I had to re-fund my account.

I do plan to return to trading one day. I still paper trade (very successfully), but now I am working full time to rebuild my savings. My top 7 learnings are:

1. Master support and resistance
2. Limit indicators to the bare minimum
3. Stay away from short time intervals and use the dominate one for the market your are trading
4. Control your emotions
5. Be very patient and let the market come to you
6. Maintain a detailed journal
7. Learn when to stop trading short term and permanently ( I should have stopped much sooner).

I firmly believe there are, relatively, a small group of traders that can make a good living trading interday futures. I was not one of them. Are you?

I applaud you for your decision, and your courage to post. You may wish to cross-post your story here, to reach more people:



Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
Orlando, Florida
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: CL, YM
 
CinderellaMan's Avatar
 
Posts: 147 since Nov 2015
Thanks: 529 given, 266 received

Great list. Thanks!

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
Boston Massachusetts
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini ES, Crude CL, Gold GC
 
Posts: 19 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 4 given, 8 received

The first poster Dead Cat Bounced is a beautiful sharing. I want to thank you for the entire posting.

I am new here just joined. have to find my way around.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Chile for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
Western Slope+Colorado/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninja
Broker: NinaTrader Brokerage, Interactive Brokers
Trading: Coffee
 
DropD's Avatar
 
Posts: 22 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 37 given, 26 received


WISDOM View Post
I wonder how many people on this site that need to face the fact that they need to stop trading. My last trade was in January of this year. I was attempting to make a living in the futures market and nearly lost everything in the process. There was nothing wrong with my method. Nearly every mistake was a mental error--pure psychology. I traded a minimum of 5 contracts and as much as 40. I can't count the number of times I had to re-fund my account.

I do plan to return to trading one day. I still paper trade (very successfully), but now I am working full time to rebuild my savings. My top 7 learnings are:

1. Master support and resistance
2. Limit indicators to the bare minimum
3. Stay away from short time intervals and use the dominate one for the market your are trading
4. Control your emotions
5. Be very patient and let the market come to you
6. Maintain a detailed journal
7. Learn when to stop trading short term and permanently ( I should have stopped much sooner).

I firmly believe there are, relatively, a small group of traders that can make a good living trading interday futures. I was not one of them. Are you?

Stopping trading is not an easy thing to do. I believe it takes courage to admit to ones self when something is simply not working out. The best thing you can do is realize that before you are at complete rock bottom. Trading is an extremely difficult thing to do. My best analogy of trading would be like trying to solve an algorithm equation while in a boxing ring trying to keep from getting punched in the face.
The emotional ups and downs associated with risk take an enormous toll on a persons psychological well being. I believe it takes a certain mindset and personality to succeed at this game, but that said, I also believe that anyone can change themselves into that mindset and personality to succeed. Those who are unwilling to change are the ones who trade until they are out of money and then leave. The successful ones force themselves into the mentality it takes willing to learn what they need to survive.
I applaud you for doing what you believe is the responsible decision for your life. There are those that go until they have gone completely broke, or worse yet in debt that will take a lifetime to recover from. This is the gambling mentality and the sad parallel between risk taking in a controlled way and rolling the dice with an addictive context.

Best of luck in your future endeavors!

-D

“Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome.”
-Arthur Ashe
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to DropD for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
ALISO VIEJO
 
 
Posts: 1 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Ok, I know the title is pretentious but it sounds good. They aren't set in stone. I've considered adding one or two. Those changes tend to fit somewhere within one of these.

I've learned these through hard-knocks, learning what successful traders do, and learning about trading psychology. I think they are important enough to warrant being on a list. You may disagree with one or more of these. That's fine. There are many ways to make money in the markets. Some people can trade off news announcements. I haven't been very successful doing it so I avoid it. Also, I like automated trading. It fits my disposition and I don't like sitting in front of the screen twitching on every entry and exit signal and going through the emotional ups and downs as the trade evolves. My confidence in the strategy allows me to put the mouse down and walk away to enjoy time with family.

** Trading 10 Commandments
1 Trading is your business not your hobby.
2 Have rules to enter and exit a trade before you enter.
3 Don’t risk more than you are willing to lose.
4 Develop confidence in your system with backtesting.
5 Don’t trade in anger, to get even, or in fear.
6 Don’t trade off news.
7 Don’t micromanage your trades.
8 Know your trading tools.
9 Keep physically and mentally fit.
10 Read these commandments each trading day.

Reply With Quote
The following 12 users say Thank You to StanfiCW for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
Hong Kong
 
 
Posts: 1 since Mar 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received


After years of trading, I wish I have never tried day trading futures. I have tried every method I know, trend following, band trading, volatility breakout, mean reversion in stock index, bond and currency futures. I would be lucky if I could get a break even month. Too many adverse factors in day trading.

Random direction - The intraday direction is difficult to predict even taking into account the higher time frame of daily and hourly chart. The intraday momentum direction can change suddenly without any warning sign.
Random magnitude of move - The magnitude of each move is difficult to predict. Occasionally the market may give a nice trend, but most intraday moves are short and choppy. Easily lost what I have gained in a few choppy moves. Hardly justify the risk involved. In some trades, I need to risk a dollar for reward of one dollar. Very bad risk to reward ratio.
Intraday stop hunting - Because of the limited profit potential in day trading, I cannot set a wide stop. Too many times the market stopped me out before it makes a big move.

Swing trading the daily charts of stocks are much easier, but it requires more capital to trade the stock daily charts. Do not put all eggs in one basket. Money management is important in each trade to limit your lost if you are wrong. My advise to beginner is that do not begin trading with trading the intraday time frames which are the most difficult and competitive field in trading business. Trust me. It looks easy but it is actually very difficult to be profitable in long run. Save enough money to do the daily charts of stocks which is profitable and less stressful.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to tonyyhl for this post:


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout > What I wish I would have known when I got started.


May 11, 2020


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

Introducing Edge Pools: Prop Pricing Model w/Edge Clear

Jul 9
 

Every journal equals ten meals for the hungry

Now
     



Copyright © 2020 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts