The market constantly changes. BUT What stays the same?? - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


The market constantly changes. BUT What stays the same??
Updated: Views / Replies:3,793 / 48
Created: by xylem Attachments:1

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 1  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

The market constantly changes. BUT What stays the same??

  #41 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received


FABRICATORX View Post
I just reread this today. Amazing how it clicked a week later, in a random place.

I was watching an episode of cutthroat kitchen, where the chefs auction for pranks to play on other chefs during the competition. Anyways, one auction was a hot item. Alton Brown said " I'll start the auction at $200" and immediately, the first bid was $3000, and was bid higher from there. What clicked for me was seeing the first offer price blow right past the starting bid. That was a gap. If that was a candle, you would've thought it traded all the way up. If you saw the tick chart, you'd see the mile wide gap.

Someone recently mentioned that charts were a creation of ours, not a requirement of the market. Charts are not a natural market output and are therefore limited to however we designed them. Now were trying to trade around what we think is happening, when were very much misunderstanding the reality, all thanks to a graphical interface that we designed, that doesn't represent the truth in its entirety.

If you look at p. 7 of that "Plan" pdf you downloaded, you'll see an example of what I'm talking about.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:
 
  #42 (permalink)
Elite Member
canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
ChocLab's Avatar
 
Posts: 32 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 28 given, 10 received

I'm backtesting some strategies with a friend and what is working in the last 3 months for us did not work before May. Market structure is changing.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ChocLab for this post:
 
  #43 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received



ChocLab View Post
I'm backtesting some strategies with a friend and what is working in the last 3 months for us did not work before May. Market structure is changing.

And it'll change again in September.

The key is to come up with an approach that is self-adapting and self-correcting, like trading price. By doing so, one follows the market whatever it does and wherever it goes. If one tries to force the market into a particular pattern of behavior, it'll respond pretty much the way a cat would.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:
 
  #44 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS,FOREX.COM app
Broker/Data: InteractiveBrokers, NinjaTrader Brokerage FOREX.COM, IQFeed
Favorite Futures: The one I'm creating in the present....ES, ZF, ZN, ZB, FX pairs
 
Blash's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,560 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 4,527 given, 2,340 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Value.......


DbPhoenix View Post
And it'll change again in September.

The key is to come up with an approach that is self-adapting and self-correcting, like trading price. By doing so, one follows the market whatever it does and wherever it goes. If one tries to force the market into a particular pattern of behavior, it'll respond pretty much the way a cat would.

I would add and what I look for is trading Value. To me price must have a volume component as an integral part. How much business is being conducted at said price tells me a great deal. If not much volume is coming into certain prices no real value is being created.

Like the retail store that puts on a sale for a handful of days with per-person limits and limited quantities to get you into the store in general so you "might" purchase other non-sale items. Or even a lost leader meaning the store take a controlled or small hit just to get you in the door.

Market does the same thing and you can spot it with volume and volume at price. Meaning volume and price and volume at price or a volume profile. Or on the tape or in the DOM or in a "Foot Print" chart, (starting to sound a bit like Dr Seuss....lol.....) which I don't personally use.

Price is an advertising mechanism and sales are for short time periods. Sales don't last long and stores do not sell great volumes on sale. They sale relatively small volumes at sale price. Just makes good business sense.

So use volume in trading to assist in a more fuller understanding of the market auctioning on the chart. If your market goes "on sale" buy it ride it back to value and flip it out. If the market just gets too expensive sell it and ride it back to value and flip it out. Trick as I see it is catching it because .......At these price extremes time is short to act and volume limited.

Ron

It is an axiomatic fact that while you meditate you are speaking with your own spirit. In that state of mind you put certain questions to your spirit and the spirit answers: the light breaks forth and the reality is revealed.
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Blash for this post:
 
  #45 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received


Blash View Post
I would add and what I look for is trading Value. To me price must have a volume component as an integral part. How much business is being conducted at said price tells me a great deal. If not much volume is coming into certain prices no real value is being created.

Like the retail store that puts on a sale for a handful of days with per-person limits and limited quantities to get you into the store in general so you "might" purchase other non-sale items. Or even a lost leader meaning the store take a controlled or small hit just to get you in the door.

Market does the same thing and you can spot it with volume and volume at price. Meaning volume and price and volume at price or a volume profile. Or on the tape or in the DOM or in a "Foot Print" chart, (starting to sound a bit like Dr Seuss....lol.....) which I don't personally use.

Price is an advertising mechanism and sales are for short time periods. Sales don't last long and stores do not sell great volumes on sale. They sale relatively small volumes at sale price. Just makes good business sense.

So use volume in trading to assist in a more fuller understanding of the market auctioning on the chart. If your market goes "on sale" buy it ride it back to value and flip it out. If the market just gets too expensive sell it and ride it back to value and flip it out. Trick as I see it is catching it because .......At these price extremes time is short to act and volume limited.

Ron

I used to employ volume all the time, even to the extent of using CVBs. But as the years rolled by and I became more famiiar with AMT, I was more able to judge volume by activity, pace, and extent, and the volume bar became less useful. Plus it took up real estate that I could put to better use.

It doesn't matter to me whether three people are moving price in a given direction or three million. All that matters to me is that price is moving in that given direction. The company is nice, but not necessary. And as for value, there will be more volume at value levels as a matter of course due to the amount of time that is spent there and the amount of trading that's taking place. If volume weren't heavier there, traders would have no reason to hang out at that level.

In some respects, it's a chicken-or-egg situation. Is there a lot of volume in that area because that's where traders have found and are finding value? Or are traders finding value there because that's where the volume is and has been? The answer most likely lies in the negotiation aspect of AMT, which helps to explain why the "value area" isn't always centered between the upper and lower limits.

As for the "time is short to act" aspect, you might be interested in what I wrote in my thread about the "danger point".

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:
 
  #46 (permalink)
Elite Member
Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT7
Favorite Futures: ES,Crude
 
Posts: 1 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 16 given, 0 received


DbPhoenix View Post
I used to employ volume all the time, even to the extent of using CVBs. But as the years rolled by and I became more famiiar with AMT, I was more able to judge volume by activity, pace, and extent, and the volume bar became less useful. Plus it took up real estate that I could put to better use.

It doesn't matter to me whether three people are moving price in a given direction or three million. All that matters to me is that price is moving in that given direction. The company is nice, but not necessary. And as for value, there will be more volume at value levels as a matter of course due to the amount of time that is spent there and the amount of trading that's taking place. If volume weren't heavier there, traders would have no reason to hang out at that level.

In some respects, it's a chicken-or-egg situation. Is there a lot of volume in that area because that's where traders have found and are finding value? Or are traders finding value there because that's where the volume is and has been? The answer most likely lies in the negotiation aspect of AMT, which helps to explain why the "value area" isn't always centered between the upper and lower limits.

As for the "time is short to act" aspect, you might be interested in what I wrote in my thread about the "danger point".

Hi DBPhoenix, can you tell me what CVB and AMT stand for please? Also, can you post a link to your thread labeled "Danger Zones"

Thanks.

Reply With Quote
 
  #47 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received


Ynotfutures View Post
Hi DBPhoenix, can you tell me what CVB and AMT stand for please? Also, can you post a link to your thread labeled "Danger Zones"

Thanks.

Sorry. CVBs are Constant Volume Bars. I used them primarily to compress the overnight activity until I learned how to interpret it. Now I just let the clock run without futzing with it.

AMT stands for Auction Market Theory.

My thread is Trading the SLA/AMT Intraday. The Danger Zones post was made yesterday.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:
 
  #48 (permalink)
Every Day I'm a n00b
San Tan Valley, AZ/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT7
Broker/Data: IB, Tallinex, & 10 others.
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
FABRICATORX's Avatar
 
Posts: 195 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 693 given, 160 received

I'm starting to understand what you're saying, @DbPhoenix.

I have the paper trade Thinkorswim mobile on my phone, and whenever I have a moment, I watch the tick chart. Sure, it's a 20 minute delay, but I can still watch how price moves, when volume comes in, and how price will often move with nearly zero volume.

I went from "learning to trade" to studying the collective market behavior.

Interesting...

-Jimmy
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to FABRICATORX for this post:
 
  #49 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Geelong Victoria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Dealbook 360/ Trader Workstation
Broker/Data: I-Deal, Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Index Futures & Options
 
Posts: 113 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 45 given, 88 received


xylem View Post
For me I believe overbought and oversold are constants in the market. When people always talk of the market changing it feels like their saying you can never be a consistently profitable trader because the market will eventually make your trading plan invalid.

How true is this for somebody who doesnt have a mechanical trading plan?

Successful traders like me without a mechanical plan simply specialize in embracing the constant change, that is my edge, and I can guarantee that I will always be trading against the Mechanical/System traders because they are simply so far behind the curve.

Cheers John

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > The market constantly changes. BUT What stays the same??

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
if the stock price stays about the same, this strategy works; crazyhorse Options on Futures 3 March 14th, 2013 06:02 PM
Constantly Updated Symbol CSV for Ninjatrader patroqueeet NinjaTrader 1 March 8th, 2013 07:51 AM
Entry stop order stays active? EasyLanguage alexfdv Open E Cry 6 January 16th, 2013 05:21 PM
Funds Bet on Mortgage Sector Even as Housing Stays Weak Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 April 30th, 2012 12:20 PM
Markets are constantly changing and are never exactly the same trendisyourfriend Traders Hideout 11 March 29th, 2012 11:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:48 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-12 in 0.15 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.234.255.29