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PATs, Mack Style Price Action Trading YM ES NQ CL
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PATs, Mack Style Price Action Trading YM ES NQ CL

  #41 (permalink)
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You must be kidding!


Big Mike View Post
@timefreedom,

Can you please help me by showing me specific examples of where I've applied rules unfairly.

Mike

@Big Mike,
I have expressed my views to you in crystal clear detail by reporting the exact posts that I have found offensive and misleading - along with reasons why. Your reply to me was to drop it. And I did. It's not my forum, it's yours. And if you are okay with certain individuals being rude, egotistical and misleading - it's fine with me. Again, I reported and was instructed by you to stop. It's your forum. I believe in free speech so I hope you'll continue to let those who have dissenting views post - but if not, there is no question, this is your forum and you will run it as you see fit. Good luck.

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  #42 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Big Mike View Post
Let's take a look at the chain of events.

And this response by @DavidHP:

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I apologize if my response caused anyone distress.

I remember when the posts by Josh started. It was actually a few posts prior to the ones you sited.
The market was slow and the Spoo thread was also stagnant.

It seemed to me that Josh was bored and looking for something to pass the time.
Later when he posted to @Fritzk his words seemed very harsh with a purpose of tearing down rather than educating.

Perhaps I felt the group or to method was being attacked.
However, there was no excuse for my response.

I should have just let go the important things happen when trading, not while reading threads

Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
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  #43 (permalink)
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timefreedom View Post
@Big Mike,
I have expressed my views to you in crystal clear detail by reporting the exact posts that I have found offensive and misleading - along with reasons why. Your reply to me was to drop it. And I did. It's not my forum, it's yours. And if you are okay with certain individuals being rude, egotistical and misleading - it's fine with me. Again, I reported and was instructed by you to stop. It's your forum. I believe in free speech so I hope you'll continue to let those who have dissenting views post - but if not, there is no question, this is your forum and you will run it as you see fit. Good luck.

Honestly I forgot that was you!

After receiving many/numerous reports from you about the same person, I did indeed ask you to drop it or at least stop reporting it and simply ignore that user.

I truly do not understand why you posted what you did earlier. I can't understand how you can't appreciate the value that particular users experience brings to the forum. He can be a pain in the ass and rough around the edges and I have asked him to reign it in a few times, and I also get tired of defending him sometimes.

I think I shared that with you before you posted what you did.

I have to make decisions for a group of people. It is simply flat out impossible to make them all happy. I piss people off all the time, unfortunately. I routinely receive hate mail, death threats, and have people and businesses out there creating outlandish lies about me on various sites -- all because they don't like something to do with futures.io (formerly BMT). I've even been sued, and even after winning that suit people continue to post utterly ridiculous conclusions. So it matters a great deal to me when my honor or my actions are questioned. Do you have any idea how hard it is to post real time trades, execution confirmations, statements, etc of my trades to a group of 50k people, some of which want nothing more than to see me fail and will distort the facts the first chance they get on their blog or website or hide behind an anonymous avatar? How about to post very bad losing days publicly? I'm not doing it for my health, I'm doing it to try and increase transparency.

Point is, I can't win sometimes no matter how hard I try or what I fight for or what I stand for or against. But when I read your post, it upsets me greatly because I cannot wrap my head around how you can't understand my position, or at least how you can't respect me enough to not post something that only serves to bring negative views.

Here I am writing something negative not because I want to, but because I want to try and bring all the facts to the surface so everyone can make a more educated decision.

I understand it is difficult to let it go if the person you reported personally attacked you or your method, but I one again ask you to ignore that user, drop it, or move on.

Sometimes I question why I bother.

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  #44 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I don't really understand.

You said the part of my reply that was most offensive was where I said the follow-up responses where upsetting to me.

From my point of view, @josh made an error with his off handed remark (first sentence of his post), which I addressed in my reply. But like I also said, I believe you have to really try and look at his participation on futures.io (formerly BMT) as a whole and not judge him for one sentence of one post.

But when I read some of the follow-ups, it's just people piling on with negativity. All because @josh said that trendlines don't move the market?

At the core of the issue is people's emotional involvement with their trading philosophy, which has been brought up by others here.

I have been emotionally involved with my trading methods as well. And I've changed them drastically over the last many years, to what I believe is a continuing evolution of my understanding of the market. What I believed in several years ago I have sense come to learn was utter crap. I try to pass on my experiences to others, and I happen to agree with what @josh said. But I also ended my reply with the comment that if you are making money, then don't let it bother you.

What I meant by that is the vast majority of traders fail, as in - lose money. And it is those that I am trying to help the most, because it is those that need the most help. So for anyone that is following any methodology and they are losing money, then they need to examine not just themselves (psychology) but also the method to see if the method itself makes sense or if it is even possible to execute on the method.

What I have learned with direct experience in my own trading is that you can have a flawed methodology yet still be a profitable trader. But it isn't easy, and it comes down to being good with your understanding of the market despite the method not because of the method.

People say I caused that thread to end, but I would like to consider for a moment that perhaps people re-evaluated their success with the method, and decided to not pursue it further?

And if I am wrong, and the method is in fact what best describes the market, then who cares what I say? Just keep trading it and keep making money.

Again thanks for your reply. I do believe the core issue is emotional attachment to ones trading beliefs.

Mike




Hey Mike,

Thanks for your reply! Youīre doing an outstanding job running the biggest „girls camp“ in the world (hey, iīm kidding, donīt beat me), handle all these emotional issues ,helping others, trading for a living in the same time and much more. You even have fought with a broker at the court to give us members the opportunity of a free speech at futures.io (formerly BMT). What more could one do?

I donīt post here for judging, i try to help to find out, what could have go wrong in this special case.
Even iīm not personally involved, i think i can see, what happened here.
I donīt think, that e.g. @Fritzk stopped posting, because josh didnīt agree, that allegedly trendlines move the markets. I donīt even see, that @Fritzk said sth. like that, he moreover said, that he has still much to learn and therefore often looks in the spoo thread. I think, thatīs what the most of us are doing, learning, testing things, being open minded, try to be helpful in the same time etc.

I donīt know josh and i donīt want to talk about him, iīm just referring to his statement, which upset many people. The killing generalization is this conclusion:

„The whole "price action" movement has created a lot of traders who take such a myopic view of the markets that they can't imagine looking at a holistic picture of the market. My guess is that it's inherent laziness, or stubbornness, because they will study charts for hours at a time, but will not take 5 minutes to read about things which could broaden their perspective because they deem it unimportant.All of the above are just a setup to fail, and it's precisely what most do.“

Aha.

I would translate this: a PA trader is a lazy and stubborn looser. At least it sounds like that.
Do we really have to discuss if there is a supportive or helpful aspect in this? Does a „successful“ trader talks like that? What is successful? Being profitable and insulting other people?

Itīs not the question, that trendlines alone lead to success, but many people, like me too, have to start somewhere not to jump around all the time. Then you have a starting point to develop in things like auction theory, market profile etc Who owns the holy gail?

But i donīt think, that even this rude statement is the problem. Itīs just an opinion, delivered with no manners. Itīs provoking and invites to fight. As if we donīt have to fight enough. But maybe if someone canīt stand the fight with one self, one starts to fight with others.

Someone must have asked you, Mike, for help, or how have you got involved in that?
One could expect, that this provoking generalization is not welcomed on futures.io (formerly BMT), but youīve said, that the allegedly negative reactions were not welcomed. Your statement here unfortunatly seems to change the facts. It looks like „kicking the victims“. This is to a million percent not your intention, but it obviously made the people stop posting. I donīt really feel good to tell you that, but this is the better way than go out for a drink and try to forget it. Talk with each other. Maybe, iīm wrong. Yes. But i donīt think, that the ineffectiv metholodgy made the people stop posting after your comment, at least not @Fritzk

The thing with the ego is a trap in this case. First, itīs not possible to separate the ego from trading. Itīs the best goal to achieve, but because we are not robots, itīs impossible.
Secondly, if someone comes to me in such a generalized way being allegedly lazy and stubborn without knowing me, this doesnīt affect me as a trader with the allegedly not existing will to develop, it affects me as a person. And this is probably not welcomed here, or?

Waiting, Discipline and Patience Pays!
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  #45 (permalink)
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This all reminds me of something FT71 said in a webinar: "your trading strategy is like a religion. You must have really belive in it. "
We can all have different belives and different religions, no problem.
...and if anyone want to call me stupid or lazy for my belives... ....so what? My strategy is combat proven, I know it works...that's the important thing.

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  #46 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Honestly I forgot that was you!

After receiving many/numerous reports from you about the same person, I did indeed ask you to drop it or at least stop reporting it and simply ignore that user.

I truly do not understand why you posted what you did earlier. I can't understand how you can't appreciate the value that particular users experience brings to the forum. He can be a pain in the ass and rough around the edges and I have asked him to reign it in a few times, and I also get tired of defending him sometimes.

I think I shared that with you before you posted what you did.

I have to make decisions for a group of people. It is simply flat out impossible to make them all happy. I piss people off all the time, unfortunately. I routinely receive hate mail, death threats, and have people and businesses out there creating outlandish lies about me on various sites -- all because they don't like something to do with futures.io (formerly BMT). I've even been sued, and even after winning that suit people continue to post utterly ridiculous conclusions. So it matters a great deal to me when my honor or my actions are questioned. Do you have any idea how hard it is to post real time trades, execution confirmations, statements, etc of my trades to a group of 50k people, some of which want nothing more than to see me fail and will distort the facts the first chance they get on their blog or website or hide behind an anonymous avatar? How about to post very bad losing days publicly? I'm not doing it for my health, I'm doing it to try and increase transparency.

Point is, I can't win sometimes no matter how hard I try or what I fight for or what I stand for or against. But when I read your post, it upsets me greatly because I cannot wrap my head around how you can't understand my position, or at least how you can't respect me enough to not post something that only serves to bring negative views.

Here I am writing something negative not because I want to, but because I want to try and bring all the facts to the surface so everyone can make a more educated decision.

I understand it is difficult to let it go if the person you reported personally attacked you or your method, but I one again ask you to ignore that user, drop it, or move on.

Sometimes I question why I bother.

Sent from my phone

@Big Mike,
The only reason I have ever taken my time to report a post at your forum is because I care about the quality / integrity of what is posted here at futures.io (formerly BMT). I have received value here since 2009 - I would like others to enjoy the same. I have never taken the time to post a single, solitary comment at any other forum, period. I don't do Facebook, twitter or any other frivolous online ridiculousness. You recognize value in some things that I believe you are simply being fooled by - and I have tried to point that out in private to you - and you have let me know that while you are aware of my attempts / concerns, you are fine with the current direction. I am in not offended or upset by this - simply concerned enough to bring it to your attention.

You mentioned hate mail and lawsuits and death threats and making people mad... If that was intended toward me, I assure you that you've never received anything such from me and I am not mad, upset, offended, etc. Since it's your choice to run a public forum, I assume you are okay with both the perks and pricks that come with it.

You mentioned the difficulty of trade transparency... So I will mention that you are the ONLY one who is attempting such transparency. And I understand all the points / counter points - no reason for anyone to post anything period - but as you are proving - it's possible. So how about transparency before coronation?

Important correction to what you wrote above, no one on this forum has ever attacked me or "my method" - and if they did, I could literally care less. I'm not the one who is here offering a service to the trading public - that would be you. Having received value from your service over the years, I would like to see that value remain open to others rather than swept aside in favor of a particular poster / approach / viewpoint.

Finally, I consider consuming bandwidth for stuff like "this" to be unfortunate. That is precisely why I attempted this discourse in private. I have never in the past, nor will I in the future, post anything that is intended to "greatly upset you". That would serve no one. My hope is that, with the benefit of hindsight, you will come to understand the only intention is to help a truly unique community / resource remain viable and relevant for a long time. Good luck.

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  #47 (permalink)
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  #48 (permalink)
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End of thread

Big Mike wants to kill this thread plus my friends on the old thread. Now the way this is turning out I want to kill this thread.
I hope everyone got things off their chest and it helped maybe we can move forward. I thought starting a new thread would
keep me away form all the speed bumps in the other thread. Sometimes what was bad turned out to be good I hope so in this case. Everyone have a great weekend. Mike please do what you think is best with this!

 
  #49 (permalink)
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Happy Rick View Post
Big Mike wants to kill this thread plus my friends on the old thread. Now the way this is turning out I want to kill this thread.
I hope everyone got things off their chest and it helped maybe we can move forward. I thought starting a new thread would
keep me away form all the speed bumps in the other thread. Sometimes what was bad turned out to be good I hope so in this case. Everyone have a great weekend. Mike please do what you think is best with this!

I honestly have no idea what you mean by killing your friends on the old thread.

What I said was this thread will eventually be closed, because it is a split topic, which we don't allow - and to use the existing main thread instead.

Closing a thread does not remove its content.

Sent from my phone

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

 
  #50 (permalink)
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I honestly have no idea



Big Mike View Post
I honestly have no idea what you mean by killing your friends on the old thread.

What I said was this thread will eventually be closed, because it is a split topic, which we don't allow - and to use the existing main thread instead.

Closing a thread does not remove its content.

Sent from my phone

Sorry that was stupid of me trying to hurry and do two things at one time, I meant to say my friends would like to have one thread also meaning kill this one not them. Maybe you change the name to stop the confusion. Do what is best for everyone and you! Lets move on.

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