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PATs, Mack Style Price Action Trading YM ES NQ CL
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PATs, Mack Style Price Action Trading YM ES NQ CL

  #21 (permalink)
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Oval is the opening

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  #22 (permalink)
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1st trade

took a long thinking it may bounce harder. First contract +$35.00 last -5.00.

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  #23 (permalink)
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timefreedom View Post
Looks like this thread has already taken a life of it's own - not in the direction the op intended. I'm not familiar with the trading approach they utilize but if you want long term thread viability, the key is to post similar views to @Big Mike. This is not a bad thing - but a clear and present reality. When I first came to this forum, Mike was using Ninja and building indicators. Consequently, this forum attracted Ninja users and some incredibly talented and generous coders - some of whom we are still blessed to have contributing. But as Mike's focus has changed over the years what is viewed as "acceptable" has also changed - quite considerably actually. This is completely natural and understandable given the fact that those who join the forum are, by default, viewing Mike as an authority. Many of the original contributors are gone now - which is fine - and the emphasis has changed to "using context and discretion." I don't fault anyone's approach to the markets - what works for one might not be appropriate for another. We all certainly have extremely strong opinions, beliefs and confidence in what we do or we simply would not be able to effectively trade. That said, I hope the forum remains open to those of us who think using the futures market to swing trade or position trade is, for lack of a better description, borderline ridiculous. Further, it would be good to see the same rules applied, in terms of what is appropriate and tolerated, applied not only to people who disagree with Mike's current trading meme, but also to those who don't. Good luck.

Let's do this...

Please give me specific examples where I have stopped people from expressing their beliefs or applied rules differently because someone doesn't trade the way I do, and I will take a look and comment.

Mike

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  #24 (permalink)
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@Happy Rick,

Sorry your thread is going off-topic. However, there are two issues.

(a) It is better to use existing threads than create new duplicate threads for existing topics.

(b) The original thread has been viewed as "dying" or "coming to an end abruptly" because a few people are upset about some things that transpired.

I think the best way to deal with it is to confront it, so hopefully your thread will serve that purpose. However, when we are done, it is best this thread be closed and the original thread continue. I agree with the other poster that said the best way to bring life into the old thread is to bring life into the old thread (posting).

Mike

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Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

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  #25 (permalink)
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DavidHP View Post
I'm not sure why the other thread suddenly died but there seems to be some underlying reason that I never understood.

I was wondering, why so many people doesnīt post anymore not only in the mentioned thread, so i had a look at it yesterday and i still feel really uncomfortable, what iīve seen there. Iīm sure, thatīs the reason, why this thread has died. Itīs not difficult to understand, what was going on.
In post # 4915 josh made a IMO rude statement against fritzk, who was posting constantly there and who has never offended anyone (correct me, if iīm wrong). But not only this, josh came to the conclusion, that the most if not all PA traders are at the end of the day stubborn loosers, if i got it right. Thatīs being said in a PA traders thread, on of the biggest on the whole forum!!! Never read sth. insulting like that on futures.io (formerly BMT). What else can be a violation of the forum rules???
Obviously someone complained about that, so that Big Mike made a comment in # 4926, which introduced certainly the end of this thread and the exit of i donīt know how many traders maybe not only out of this thread, but out of futures.io (formerly BMT) as a whole.
Mike didnīt interrupt this insulting, he moreover defended josh, claiming he would only like to help and furthermore complained about the IMO understandable reactions of the attacked traders.
It doesnīt feel good to get insulted for oneīs trading style with the indirect support of the moderator. And if this is the new style on futures.io (formerly BMT), itīs getting uninterersting for me, too. What a pity! This was a good place to be until yesterday for me.

Waiting, Discipline and Patience Pays!
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  #26 (permalink)
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pipandrun View Post
I was wondering, why so many people doesnīt post anymore not only in the mentioned thread, so i had a look at it yesterday and i still feel really uncomfortable, what iīve seen there. Iīm sure, thatīs the reason, why this thread has died. Itīs not difficult to understand, what was going on.
In post # 4915 josh made a IMO rude statement against fritzk, who was posting constantly there and who has never offended anyone (correct me, if iīm wrong). But not only this, josh came to the conclusion, that the most if not all PA traders are at the end of the day stubborn loosers, if i got it right. Thatīs being said in a PA traders thread, on of the biggest on the whole forum!!! Never read sth. insulting like that on futures.io (formerly BMT). What else can be a violation of the forum rules???
Obviously someone complained about that, so that Big Mike made a comment in # 4926, which introduced certainly the end of this thread and the exit of i donīt know how many traders maybe not only out of this thread, but out of futures.io (formerly BMT) as a whole.
Mike didnīt interrupt this insulting, he moreover defended josh, claiming he would only like to help and furthermore complained about the IMO understandable reactions of the attacked traders.
It doesnīt feel good to get insulted for oneīs trading style with the indirect support of the moderator. And if this is the new style on futures.io (formerly BMT), itīs getting uninterersting for me, too. What a pity! This was a good place to be until yesterday for me.

Link to post #4915:

https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/30373-pats-price-action-trading-elite-members-common-journal-492.html#post457966

Link to post #4926:

https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/30373-pats-price-action-trading-elite-members-common-journal-493.html#post458064

I am going to spend some time reading that and will be back.

Mike

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Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

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  #27 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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Let's take a look at the chain of events.

@josh replied to @Fritzk:

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@Fritzk replied:

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@Fritzk replied a second time, it looks like @josh editing his original post a minute or two after and added the statement in bold, to which @Fritzk is directly responding to:

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At this point I think it is fair to say some think @josh is personally attacking them. But I think these people should be slightly more listening. It is my opinion that @josh is absolutely correct, and that he is only saying these things to try to help - not to try to upset people. I have used trendlines myself, for a long time, and made money. But I believe the point is that trendlines aren't the catalyst moving markets. I would suggest reading the thread "Random Line Theory" to try to understand how the mind works when it comes to lines on a chart and how perception can quickly be distorted.

Now @josh is replying to @Fritzk:

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A lot of people were upset by @josh's post, as can be seen here by the show of support by this response by @shaft5150:

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And this response by @Kindval:

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And this response by @stoplight:

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And this response by @DavidHP:

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And this follow-up response by @Fritzk:

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Someone reported a post, so I came and looked. Here is my response after reading the above:

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@zander931 replied to my post:

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To which @Silvester17 replied to @zander931:

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Honestly, this really upset me. Where is the dramatic turn? Because @josh told @Fritzk that trendlines isn't why the market jumped 10 handles? I think people are taking things too personally, they like the method they are using but they should be open to the possibility the market moves for reasons outside of what is covered by the method.

When @Silvester17's post received 12 thanks, it makes me sad. It's because I know the biggest problem on a forum is negativity. If negativity is allowed to fester, it basically breeds more negativity and spreads. The reason is not because @Silvester17 is a mean or bad person. In fact, @Silvester17 is one of the most helpful and respected posters on all of futures.io (formerly BMT). The reason is it is simply easier to be mean on a forum than it is to be nice. Believe me, I suffer from this often, when I read something I so strongly disagree with -- the easiest response is the one to attack, the more difficult response is the one to try and educate and explain.

So when I see that, it makes me sad because it's like a daisy chain event where people get fixated on this "event" and use this "event" to get negative about other events on futures.io (formerly BMT), and it just becomes a snowball effect where eventually people start leaving or threatening to leave because of the negativity.

futures.io (formerly BMT) was created to be a positive and helpful place. For this reason, I reached out to @Silvester17 and tried to explain my belief and much of what I wrote above, thanked him immensely for his contributions, but also asked him to be aware of the "snowball effect" on negativity. Unfortunately he has not made any further posts on futures.io (formerly BMT) after I contacted him.

But this is the duty of the site admin, a site admin that believes in the site and its users and its content, and there are not always easy black/white choices. Like trading, it's a lot of grey area, and it requires discretion and it requires taking risk.

I believe that if all members involved would simply talk to each other they would find they are all good people, all with positive intentions. I invite them to do so. Then we can all move forward.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
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  #28 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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pipandrun View Post
so that Big Mike made a comment in # 4926, which introduced certainly the end of this thread and the exit of i donīt know how many traders maybe not only out of this thread, but out of futures.io (formerly BMT) as a whole.
Mike didnīt interrupt this insulting, he moreover defended josh, claiming he would only like to help and furthermore complained about the IMO understandable reactions of the attacked traders.
It doesnīt feel good to get insulted for oneīs trading style with the indirect support of the moderator. And if this is the new style on futures.io (formerly BMT), itīs getting uninterersting for me, too. What a pity! This was a good place to be until yesterday for me.

@pipandrun, let's get this out in the open please. I would appreciate it if you would please help me understand how my reply in #4926 was insulting or how it added to the problem instead of trying to address it, or how it ended the thread.

Please feel free to break down my reply line-by-line and help me understand your point of view.

Thank you.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #29 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I think people are taking things too personally, they like the method they are using but they should be open to the possibility the market moves for reasons outside of what is covered by the method.

Hi, I'm responding just because I saw a mention pop up...

I certainly meant no disrespect towards @josh ... I generally quite like his posts, and as I mentioned in my response, I agree with a lot of what he was saying. I just thought his approach (and probably mine!) could have been better, and would have avoided people thinking it was a personal attack (or attack on anyone using that methodology) as opposed to suggesting we look deeper into why the market moves. Maybe I'm wrong and that's fine, but that's certainly how it read to me.

Cheers

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  #30 (permalink)
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Having survived the scalping battles of ol '14, it was a matter of time that we wade through the aftermath.

Personally I love @Fritzk, @josh, and @Silvester17 they are all great guys.

But I have also noticed that if someone offers a different opinion, some users take offense, or even take it very personally. I have been taught throughout life that if someone says something to you and it offends you, there is a reason on the inside that you are offended. They have hit a nerve with you. The best thing to do is to look inside and figure out why you were offended.

The issue I see is that people have tied their egos to their trading or their method. SO if either don't work out well they feel like they have personally failed. You cannot do that, because it will never end well. Only once I removed my self worth from my trading was I able to take an objective view of it.

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