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New CME fees on multiple platforms?


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New CME fees on multiple platforms?

  #21 (permalink)
 
kronie's Avatar
 kronie 
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Seahn View Post
If a $15 monthly fee is materially affecting ones profitability then one should rethink trading futures. Just saying....

tick bytes, smaller than mosquito bytes is what they are...

what is disturbing, as so eloquently outlined above, are the pattern and what it portends...

there are already a number of rooms, where traders are matching with so much less stress (both computerized system stress as well as emotional stress), trading actively in their options accounts, and putting to shame, the Emini futures traders...

simply put, when one factors into that equation, that reality, then what I have outlined above takes on a significant competitive quotient, whereas, someone correctly stated earlier, that the CME is doing these "fee adverse actions", because they don't feel they have any competition....

CBOE used to be the latest and greatest, and trumped Equity trading, until the CME downsized their full contracts into mini-sized futures and then further went from pit to electronic based, and they rose. Guess what, perhaps the CBOE and others have learned and are beginning to address this very same "expense equation" and target those same sophissticated trading public with their substantially lower cost-to-carry products..

the game is afoot...

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  #22 (permalink)
 
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tflanner View Post
I have been a member of. CBOt for 20 plus yrs...

Then you know what a long way we have come in technology, execution, and service.
When I started as a commodity broker in the 90's most could not afford internet,
let alone a quote machine . Today, you have streaming machines with quotes, low latency execution, and the ability to
collocate near the exchange.

The cost of the net went down, and with that you have consistent new interest of traders who may sit on the infrastructure for years before placing one trade if at all. So the CME says, choose your battles (Platform and broker) and don't be all over the place. After all, you can just choose one exchange and one platform pay only $5.

BTW, I am more affected by anyone on this because we will be considered as professional.
Our rates will be X5 as much per exchange, per platform, etc
$85 per exchange as far as I know.

I am not a CME advocate, shareholder or in anyway shape of form get any of the fees they charge.
The key for traders is to focus now, and see how to restructure in lieu of these changes and not
go on and on how unfair. This is the approach I decided to take.

I wish you all a good weekend.

matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #23 (permalink)
 
kronie's Avatar
 kronie 
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sometimes making a point and giving aire to the opposite view is a time consuming but worthwhile effort,

these forums are the place for such enlighten discussions, and hopefully will become part of the response to places like those decision influencers (not decision makers) of these committees, whom feel out of touch and not likely to be reached in committee....


obviously to a trader, whether profitable or not, if complaint over $15 monthly fees are the sole decision making factor, then perhap a larger discussion is in order....

some of us have become ECN members of the CME and/or other exchanges based on the advantages that those membership levels provide....

some of us sophisticated retail traders still have platinum dreams on pauper salaries or how did Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous announcer used to say: "champagne dreams....", simply put, we never forget out meager beginnings, irrespective of where we are at presently....

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  #24 (permalink)
 tflanner 
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mattz View Post
Then you know what a long way we have come in technology, execution, and service.
When I started as a commodity broker in the 90's most could not afford internet,
let alone a quote machine . Today, you have streaming machines with quotes, low latency execution, and the ability to
collocate near the exchange.

The cost of the net went down, and with that you have consistent new interest of traders who may sit on the infrastructure for years before placing one trade if at all. So the CME says, choose your battles (Platform and broker) and don't be all over the place. After all, you can just choose one exchange and one platform pay only $5.

BTW, I am more affected by anyone on this because we will be considered as professional.
Our rates will be X5 as much per exchange, per platform, etc
$85 per exchange as far as I know.

I am not a CME advocate, shareholder or in anyway shape of form get any of the fees they charge.
The key for traders is to focus now, and see how to restructure in lieu of these changes and not
go on and on how unfair. This is the approach I decided to take.

I wish you all a good weekend.

matt

Matt-

I worked for JPM on the floor and been trading electronically since 2001. I don't need a history lesson. Just want to see the CME treat retail traders fairly. They have turned into a bunch of Fat Cats....

I made my money in this business...I just know that there are a lot of people they are affecting that are struggling to make it in this business. I don't like to see the little guy squeezed. I was raised in a big family and the wrong side of the tracks....I have a little empathy..... The CME makes plenty of enough money off of retail traders already.

Have a good weekend and please realize that I know that this discussion was a complete waste of my time.

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  #25 (permalink)
 
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 DavidHP 
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mattz View Post
BTW, I am more affected by anyone on this because we will be considered as professional.
Our rates will be X5 as much per exchange, per platform, etc
$85 per exchange as far as I know.

matt

Does this mean that as a professional and you use Ninjatrader with a Rithmic data feed and also use R/Trader as a trading interface you will be charged for 2 professional data fees?
(i.e. $85 for the Ninjatrader login and $85 for the Rithmic login <one exchange pro fee>)

That could get very expensive for the you with multiple exchanges and multiple platforms connecting to the data providers.

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  #26 (permalink)
 
DavidHP's Avatar
 DavidHP 
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I trade multiple accounts for friends and family.

I have recently been told that anyone trading multiple accounts via a POA (power of attorney) will be classified as a professional by the CME even though they are a non-pro.

One way I think I can avoid that classification is to trade multiple accounts without the broker POA and broker based block account.

The problem is, to do that I will need to use either R/Trader, CQG Trader, or Ninjatraders Group Account function.
The NT Group accounts have some serious draw backs.
(manually managed stops and targets for each account).

If the CME is going to charge data fees for each login, then that automatically doubles the cost even to if you have a non-pro status and non-pro data fees if I use anything other than NT Account Groups.

If I understand correctly NT8 will have very few (if any) changes to the Account Groups.
(Perhaps it is time for someone to create a C# interface to increase the functionality of the NT Account Groups.)

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  #27 (permalink)
 
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DavidHP View Post
Does this mean that as a professional and you use Ninjatrader with a Rithmic data feed and also use R/Trader as a trading interface you will be charged for 2 professional data fees?
(i.e. $85 for the Ninjatrader login and $85 for the Rithmic login <one exchange pro fee>)

That could get very expensive for the you with multiple exchanges and multiple platforms connecting to the data providers.

Since you are not a member, firm-memeber of work for a member FCM or IB, I do believe that you will be charged for 2 screens. Find out via your FCM/IB (where you trade the block account) your full cost.
Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
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  #28 (permalink)
 
kronie's Avatar
 kronie 
NYC + NY / USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
Trading: EMD, 6J, ZB
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tflanner View Post
Matt-

I worked for JPM on the floor and been trading electronically since 2001. I don't need a history lesson. Just want to see the CME treat retail traders fairly. They have turned into a bunch of Fat Cats....

I made my money in this business...I just know that there are a lot of people they are affecting that are struggling to make it in this business. I don't like to see the little guy squeezed. I was raised in a big family and the wrong side of the tracks....I have a little empathy..... The CME makes plenty of enough money off of retail traders already.

Have a good weekend and please realize that I know that this discussion was a complete waste of my time.

@SophieM4 ....
@tflanner...

Instead of just clicking on the "thank you button", I thought to both tank you(s) in written form, and encourage you to contribute more, and never feel such is not worth our time....

we all benefit, and your comment, proved my point, although it took a few moves on the chess board to accomplish...

the publically traded exchanges have the ability to launch bonds easier than before going publically traded, so any budgetary or long term financing issues would be addressed. I remember learning how IBM taught that lesson to the business community by launching 100 year bonds at some of the most attractive interest rates imagineable. The exchanges not only generate tons of positive cash flow, they also sell services (co-location and other priority services), as well as training sessions, books and exclusive access to their facilities (whether on tours, books or multi-media formats). They create money well beyond their core products, such that they could offer rebates to active customer accounts as a way of encouraging growth amongst those sophisticated retail trading public, instead of finding a way to chase away both active and inactive account holders and consumers of their live data feeds...

just a thought....

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  #29 (permalink)
 
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DavidHP View Post
One way I think I can avoid that classification is to trade multiple accounts without the broker POA and broker based block account.

I would discourage you from engaging in activity that is not truthful. If you trade other people's account the responsibility is both on you and the party being traded to report it as such.
I would encourage you possibly to discuss this with the FCM, CME, etc how some of this cost could be absorbed by those who's account is being traded. I am not sure it is possible, however, it is worth while finding out.

Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
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  #30 (permalink)
 
DavidHP's Avatar
 DavidHP 
Isla Mujeres, MX
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mattz View Post
I would discourage you from engaging in activity that is not truthful. If you trade other people's account the responsibility is both on you and the party being traded to report it as such.
I would encourage you possibly to discuss this with the FCM, CME, etc how some of this cost could be absorbed by those who's account is being traded. I am not sure it is possible, however, it is worth while finding out.

Matt

Thanks for the reply.
However, this is not being untruthful.
Unless something has changed, the regulations allow non-professional traders to trade up to 15 'friends and family' accounts without being classified as a professional.

According to all of the SEC and Commodities Futures Trading Commission regulations I have read, I do not meet the requirements of a Securities Professional. It seems as if the Exchange is attempting to create a rate structure that is not supported by the regulating commissions requirements.

I am not suggesting doing anything illegal.
What seems to be happening is the CME is using the brokers to implement the fee on their clients.
Each login is considered another data charge.
If using RTrader and Ninjatrader together created a significant change in a single users data usage I could understand the need to charge a fee. But we all know the difference in data usage for one account or two into the same broker is almost not measurable.

If I have mis-read this information, I'm sure you will set the record straight, but you ARE a professional.

BTW thanks for the great support you have given me as an Optimus client

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