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Should sim traders who pretend to trade cash be allowed on BMT?
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Should sim traders who pretend to trade cash be allowed on BMT?

  #171 (permalink)
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rwbil View Post
trading live

Just want to be sure everyone knows, I don't take issue with non-live (aka sim) trades, so long as you don't pretend you actually know how to trade by "showing off" your sim trades as if you could have traded the same live.

Everyone that trades cash knows that sim is not cash.

There is no harm in posting a bunch of sim trades if you clearly state they are sim trades. And of course if you aren't deceiving people in other ways, like posting late (not real time) with hindsight or editing your posts and changing info, etc etc.

Plenty of people start a journal on sim and that's fine. The issue is not that. It's the people that have these threads that post these fake trades, but post them as if they took them cash. Especially when you see a bunch of bullshit like they are trading 10 lots and have a 95% win ratio with a 5 tick stop and 50 tick target. The more I think about it the more I want to ban these douchebags.

Mike

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  #172 (permalink)
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A Half Truth Is a Full Lie

I don't see the problem just being posting SIM trades and proclaiming them Live (obviously this should be considered a worthless contributor to this forum, imho).

The problem is also posting live successes and proclaiming or (subtly hinting at) no or few live failures.

It is sort of like someone bragging about their amazing returns but without disclosing that they had to bet their entire life's savings on a million-to-one long shot in order to make those returns. The returns ARE live, verifiable and true, but the reward must be properly weighed against the risk taken to achieve the reward. To only display the results without the associated risk, is displaying only half of the truth.

And posting live winners without posting the live losers is also only half the truth.

Charlatans of all kinds are notorious for this type of logic. They say, "what you do is, buy here and sell there, it is that easy." They show you a couple of successful examples and it really looks, "that easy." What is not presented, is all of the times that it doesn't work. All the times that the indicators are all green, the stars are all aligned, the triangles are all in place and.... failure!

Sorry kids, but the the magic happens because you don't see everything the magician is doing behind his back. And for those who say, "let them post whatever they want because we still get good ideas from it," I have to say that I'll bet you probably really enjoy magic shows. Me too, but I'm more impressed with a good magician's ability to deceive the eye than the "magic" that is happening.

We go to magic show to be entertained. We come here to learn, collaborate, and impart knowledge on others who hold a common interest. This is not the place for magic shows.

It would be great to have a GONG button for posters you know are full of it. It would be great to police honesty. But unfortunately that is a pretty impossible task (exhibit A: The US justice system).

Look, are we all here for the reasons I mentioned above? Learning, collaborating, imparting knowledge, etc? If so then be honest about what you are posting. Be honest about your ability. Be honest about the good AND the bad.

I'm going to have more respect for you if you are real. If you really are the perfect trader, great, be honest about that too. But if you are posting only half of the story and leaving the other half to my imagination, then I'm going to imagine you are full of it!

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  #173 (permalink)
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Hey Man...


@ProfitableFuture

I think that most of the best traders...not all...are extremely humble about what they post.

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  #174 (permalink)
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Follow up...


wldman View Post
@ProfitableFuture

I think that most of the best traders...not all...are extremely humble about what they post.


I understand that. And I don't disagree.

And I should add that I have a deep appreciation for the valuable, honest information posted here at futures.io (formerly BMT) (by new and veteran traders alike).

Value is added to this forum by honest posts. The rest is cannon fodder and like spam email it should be routed straight to the junk folder.

 
  #175 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I understand.

The best thing I've come up with (several years ago) is a trading competition where I provide paper accounts to those who enter and futures.io (formerly BMT) tracks/posts the results. Unfortunately, the CME has not allowed me to do it so far. I'm still trying.

Mike

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is the CME opposed to you doing something that may be beneficial to tracking progress or competition? And what exactly is their role or say in you proposing such a competition or software? I thought they only provide the data but I could be wrong. Is there a thread about this?


Last edited by Itchymoku; April 24th, 2014 at 08:33 AM.
 
  #176 (permalink)
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Would someone send me a PM with the names of these culprits.

Either I am too trusting / naive, or I have simply not come across the threads in question.

Perhaps both


AJ
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"Life On The Edge of SR"
 
  #177 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Just want to be sure everyone knows, I don't take issue with non-live (aka sim) trades, so long as you don't pretend you actually know how to trade by "showing off" your sim trades as if you could have traded the same live.

Everyone that trades cash knows that sim is not cash.

There is no harm in posting a bunch of sim trades if you clearly state they are sim trades. And of course if you aren't deceiving people in other ways, like posting late (not real time) with hindsight or editing your posts and changing info, etc etc.

Plenty of people start a journal on sim and that's fine. The issue is not that. It's the people that have these threads that post these fake trades, but post them as if they took them cash. Especially when you see a bunch of bullshit like they are trading 10 lots and have a 95% win ratio with a 5 tick stop and 50 tick target. The more I think about it the more I want to ban these douchebags.

Mike

@Big Mike,
Since this is your forum, and it's not a democracy, why not just take action? If YOU suspect that someone on YOUR forum is being disingenuous or misleading, especially with regard to anything that pertains to trading, why not simply contact them (you have their contact information) and request that they provide you (not the public) with some proof of concept. This could come in the form of trading statements, broker references, perhaps even just a personal phone call so you could then gauge the veracity of what is being posted on your forum. For those who have been around awhile, it's easy to pick out the ridiculous threads - entertaining as they may be. For someone new to trading, with limited domain knowledge, perhaps some of those ridiculous threads do enough harm to render their entertainment value unworthy.

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  #178 (permalink)
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tderrick View Post
Would someone send me a PM with the names of these culprits.

Either I am too trusting / naive, or I have simply not come across the threads in question.

Perhaps both

that's an invitation for libel and law suit,

one would have to have unquestioned proof (namely access to all their live accounts to see whether or not those posted trades they are accused of occurred or not)

that's a can of worms not worth browsing....

however, out of respect for the integrity (look up that term as other military officers are taught its definition) of their moniker / name / reputation, that they would only post live trades or post sim trades (with full disclosure of it being sim)

clearly, we have too many faux paus teachers and boasters, hence this thread and heated debate (at this point well over 18 pages)

but then again, one could only hope....

 
  #179 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post

They know who they are, and most people reading this thread know who they are. You would think that would be enough to get dishonest people to go away.

Considering that ET has had many very, very long threads with people devoted to calling fake trades and calling each other liars, I suspect people just enjoy the attention and the 'fun'.

 
  #180 (permalink)
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hmmmm.... well, that's why I requested a PM.

This is all very strange and not worth the effort and / or angst.

IMHO

It seems as if this site is beginning to thrive off turmoil .




kronie View Post
that's an invitation for libel and law suit,

one would have to have unquestioned proof (namely access to all their live accounts to see whether or not those posted trades they are accused of occurred or not)

that's a can of worms not worth browsing....

however, out of respect for the integrity (look up that term as other military officers are taught its definition) of their moniker / name / reputation, that they would only post live trades or post sim trades (with full disclosure of it being sim)

clearly, we have too many faux paus teachers and boasters, hence this thread and heated debate (at this point well over 18 pages)

but then again, one could only hope....



AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
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