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Should sim traders who pretend to trade cash be allowed on BMT?
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Should sim traders who pretend to trade cash be allowed on BMT?

  #151 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Keepin it Real at Big Mike's

Hey all,

Velocity Futures has an opt in Leaders Board. As a client of Velocity you can opt into their leaders board and your daily real money trading result will be posted for all of the other Velocity Clients who have opted into the leaders board to see. In my humble opinion this is a fantastic tool. The Velocity leaders board will show exactly who is trading what instruments and their real money results every day.

I was a Leaders Board member until I moved to another brokerage in order to take advantage of a much lower commission schedule, however I truly and sincerely miss participating in the end of day leader board review even though I never came close to the leaders. The Velocity leaders board also shows the bottom of the list or the biggest losers. I found it very helpful to "pace my trading" against other real money traders.

If it were somehow possible for traders willing to opt into a Big Mikes real money Leaders Board I would definitely participate. Having legitimate honesty, clarity and transparency in the trading universe is the real "Holy Grail of Trading" in my very humble opinion.

The thoughts above reflect my own wishful thinking, I once asked a wise man how we might convince all traders to be honest and transparent in their actual trading results, especially famous authors, presenters and personalities? His answer was to laugh and say "good luck with that." His initials were BM, but his identity must remain secret.

Warm regards to all fellow traders, donzi

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  #152 (permalink)
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donzi View Post
Hey all,

Velocity Futures has an opt in Leaders Board. As a client of Velocity you can opt into their leaders board and your daily real money trading result will be posted for all of the other Velocity Clients who have opted into the leaders board to see. In my humble opinion this is a fantastic tool. The Velocity leaders board will show exactly who is trading what instruments and their real money results every day.

I was a Leaders Board member until I moved to another brokerage in order to take advantage of a much lower commission schedule, however I truly and sincerely miss participating in the end of day leader board review even though I never came close to the leaders. The Velocity leaders board also shows the bottom of the list or the biggest losers. I found it very helpful to "pace my trading" against other real money traders.

If it were somehow possible for traders willing to opt into a Big Mikes real money Leaders Board I would definitely participate. Having legitimate honesty, clarity and transparency in the trading universe is the real "Holy Grail of Trading" in my very humble opinion.

The thoughts above reflect my own wishful thinking, I once asked a wise man how we might convince all traders to be honest and transparent in their actual trading results, especially famous authors, presenters and personalities? His answer was to laugh and say "good luck with that." His initials were BM, but his identity must remain secret.

Warm regards to all fellow traders, donzi

What makes the Velocity Leader's Board work is an objective and independent third party is collecting and reporting the daily trading results. The problem here on futures.io (formerly BMT) is there is no easy way to achieve that level of independent objectivity. As long as the trader has a hand in it, there is a way to alter the results being claimed.

I am not familiar with the Velocity Leader's Board, what type of information is reported on the daily report ?

Be Patient and Trade Smart
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  #153 (permalink)
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donzi View Post
however I truly and sincerely miss participating in the end of day leader board review even though I never came close to the leaders. The Velocity leaders board also shows the bottom of the list or the biggest losers. I found it very helpful to "pace my trading" against other real money traders.

I'll bet that if you check the leader board against the laggard board, you would see that there are some very big losers in the laggards as well. So when you see the leaders up $100K, don't assume that's net profit--they may very well have a separate account with huge (even bigger) losses sometimes, and use one account to hedge off the other. Not saying they aren't making money, but don't put much stock in the leader board without taking it in context.

 
  #154 (permalink)
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I've been away from the forums for a while, and came back yesterday to see if Fat Tails ever posted up a rolling VWAP indicator (I'll have to code it myself). While here, I took a little spin through the forums. One of the magic elite journals is still going strong. I posted one chart of one loser from the magic methodology back when it first started: no response...

This thread may be dead, but I'll throw in my two cents:

In a competitive, elite performance activity the anonymous, super-democratic online process is a crappy content selection mechanism. My guess is that successful traders either vet someone that they know personally to demonstrate the activity, or grind it out on their own to eventually separate themselves from the pack. An anonymous internet forum isn't going to teach much of value.

Now what I would pay attention to, and be inclined to participate in, is a an undemocratic forum. So here's my suggestion:

Let there be an invitation only journal subforum - an elite elite section of the website. If you want to join, you agree to start a public "application journal." They guy who owns the sandbox (BigMike) either acts himself as a curator or appoints someone he personally trusts as curator, and this person decides who joins based on the content of the application journal. Hopefully the curator will not select only successful traders, but include those traders who demonstrate a solid learning process.

Monarchy!

I'd like to see the ground rules include showing executions, so that both real and aspiring traders can see what a select group of real and aspiring traders is actually doing. If the monarch decides that someone is faking, they get booted. If you really want to temper the authority of the Monarch, appoint a Senate of senior traders to vote on who is in and who is out. If you really want to get closer to republicanism, write a constitution so that it is clear what a journal must look like to make the cut. But whatever you do, keep the mob out of it.

Yup it's a secret club, and the content depends on the integrity of the curator. There will be a kind of in-crowd culture that develops, and if the curator has ego issues the whole thing could start to suck quickly. But if it sucks, good people will leave. Even if it is good, there may only be a tiny number of people involved. People will bad mouth the forum either way, but who cares? I'm sure they already do.

Of course, something like this could happen without the specific elite-elite venue, but interestingly enough it doesn't happen. Good traders don't need to discuss their process openly so as to improve (despite the "open communication" line that is culturally dominant in online spaces), and they don't get enough valuable feedback to otherwise benefit. Good traders also know that the minute they start yapping about how great they are, their results start to suffer for psychological reasons. So they quietly fatten their account.

The existence of an elite-elite forum, in addition to providing a context where good traders might enjoy discussing their trading process openly, will also encourage newbies to use a correct learning process, because they understand that demonstrating good process will get them access to quality feedback. Successful application journals should be put front and center on the website, so that everyone can see what kind of work is taken seriously. This may leverage the new trader's inherent desire for "secret" knowledge and put him on the proper path. Over time, if the curator is legit, an culture of good learning will develop.

Just a thought.

-RK

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  #155 (permalink)
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Well my conclusion after reading this thread is it would no longer be a good idea to open a journal at futures.io (formerly BMT). Too many rules designed to protect the naive would have to be implemented and monitored - which IMO far outweigh the benefits of posting a journal in the first place.

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  #156 (permalink)
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Really...

so having not done it because you are afraid, you have decided to never get better because you would have to be accountable. Please consider trading ES and 6E.

 
  #157 (permalink)
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BeachTrader View Post
Well my conclusion after reading this thread is it would no longer be a good idea to open a journal at futures.io (formerly BMT). Too many rules designed to protect the naive would have to be implemented and monitored - which IMO far outweigh the benefits of posting a journal in the first place.

Knowledge sharing should be at the heart of the futures.io (formerly BMT) community. Journals are well worthwhile in the learning journey as a trader.

 
  #158 (permalink)
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BeachTrader View Post
Well my conclusion after reading this thread is it would no longer be a good idea to open a journal at futures.io (formerly BMT). Too many rules designed to protect the naive would have to be implemented and monitored - which IMO far outweigh the benefits of posting a journal in the first place.

I think you have the wrong idea. I have not defined any additional rules. What is mentioned in this thread are numerous suggestions at this point.

In addition, saying that it outweighs the benefits makes no sense to me, because you can look around at the hundreds of active journals on the site, and you don't see any negativity in them. Even from those journals who are "breaking the rules" suggested in this thread, there is not a hint of any kind of negativity because of it.

I believe you've made a rash decision.

Mike

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  #159 (permalink)
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sands View Post
perfectly put. Knowledge sharing should be at the heart of the futures.io (formerly BMT) community. Think this thread has died of natural causes now.

When there is a large group of people, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to please everyone.

In the last 24 hours, 8,232 people have used the site. Just because a very tiny fraction of those (say, less than 10, which would be less than 0.1%) abuse the good nature of the site by posting knowingly fake/false/deceiving journals doesn't mean that the other 99.9% of people can't go on enjoying the benefits of the forum.

Like I stated before, it was my hope that this threads very existence would be enough to compel the liars to go away. So far I can't say that it has. The reason I have not banned these people flat out is because I only have my experience as a trader and my experience as a forum admin to tell me these people are liars, where the liars have a large following of what I would consider naive people.

That means that if I were to ban them then it would cause a bunch of drama. It is better in my opinion to just get them to leave or grow up and stop deceiving others. That way no time is spent trying to convince their followers of their ill deeds, or vice versa.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #160 (permalink)
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If guys want to ...


be credible, they can choose credibility, can't they?

If someone provides their own audit trail that is as verifiable as privacy or safety will allow won't that person's trade content posts over time be judged correctly in the proper perspective.

Is that not infinitely better than the fantasy land delusions that get planted and fertilized?

Mike can make whatever changes he thinks benefits the forum and as his guest I'll support that (almost certain) or not participate here (unlikely).

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