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Are you Making or Losing Money ?
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Are you Making or Losing Money ?

  #11 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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sands View Post
Thanks Kevin, but I have perhaps not been clear. I mean that earning more than my day job is the financial freedom I wanted to prove I was capable of and my journey to date has opened my eyes over these 6-8months to the fact that I'm definitely capable of it if I can end up doing it full time. Certainly I'm not all the way there especially as I'm busy with family life and a day job. I definitely respect that it's a long journey and that it's one I will spend years advancing my knowledge in and learning from pro's like yourself and others on futures.io (formerly BMT), thats having gone this far on this journey including demo trading on probably what's been two yrs to now and 10 yrs in banking before then. So definitely not 6months only :-)

Although I saw a YouTube vid this morning of a 14 yr old trader using footprints and value trading! Awesome but even that lad was trading since he was 10!

I'd echo what you say it takes yrs of effort in preparation if not in application with definitely no short cuts.

Thanks

Sand.


Based on your previous posts, I can tell you are way above normal trading wise, so the 6 months did not shock me. At some trading firms, that's all the time you get to "get it," so some people can do that. Thanks for clarifying!

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
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  #12 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
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sands View Post
Also certainly the only guaranteed way to make money is to broker transactions, be an intermediary, or vendor in another capacity as many traders have gone on to do. Personally I'm still learning and a ways off from such things myself.

Guaranteed? Business does not have any overhead?
This is like me saying trading is guaranteed because all you need is a computer.

Matt

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Lehrte, Germany
 
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mattz View Post
Guaranteed? Business does not have any overhead?

Matt

Keep cool Matt, I'm sure he didn't mean it that way.

Perhaps he refers to the fact that a broker always gets paid regardless if a trader wins or loses...

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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  #14 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
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Daytrader999 View Post
Keep cool Matt, I'm sure he didn't mean it that way.

Perhaps he refers to the fact that a broker always gets paid regardless if a trader wins or loses...

I am cool as one can be and I really don't need to be kept at bay. When someone says "make money" that implies bottom line profit. I just added a perspective to the argument.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #15 (permalink)
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mattz View Post
...I really don't need to be kept at bay.

Really no need for that. That's the reason why I added a wink to my previous post...but now I'm out of here.

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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  #16 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
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Daytrader999 View Post
Really no need for that. That's the reason why I added a wink to my previous post...but now I'm out of here.

I just did not want others to view us as a "transaction people" only. We do our best to help in any capacity so customers may see us as long term partners.
If my replies seemed aggressive, I apologize, this was not my intention as I just try to fight the notion that brokers on one side of the tracks while the customers are on the other.
I should have given more credit to those who have been long term traders who know this is not the case and let them reply.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.

Last edited by mattz; April 5th, 2014 at 12:55 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
Calgary Alberta/Canada
 
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I have made the market my sole revenue for the last 10 years. I did not make money every one of those years obviously...I was going great until 2008 where I lost 45% of my holdings...that was an eyeopener for me. but in 2009 and 2010 I made more than 20% (after living expenses) each year as the recovery took place.

How did I get to this situation? I studied charting off and on starting in the early 1980's. I was fascinated with charting. I started with P&F charting (which I still use today despite the sentiment out there that it is too old school)...I would as a hobby spend my Saturday morning/afternoons taking the financial pages and manually updated about 100 stock charts. It was amazing to me that stock prices followed recognizable trends.

I did a lot of reading back then on charting but mast books on the subject seemed overly simplistic and touted the same pattern recognition techniques that were usually obvious after the fact.

I did invest but in Canada in the 1980 you could get 15+% per year on guaranteed saving certificates so in a tax sheltered RRSP plan I maxed my contribution there to build up a poke.

I started to look at Mutual funds in the 1990's and charted and traded them until it was pointed out to me that the company did not like their funds TRADED...you were supposed to leave them there...which I thought was dumb as the funds grew and depleted in value and you never really made money on them...the crisis came when I tried to trade out of a bond fund into a precious metal fund and they froze my account saying it was too risky...I was livid because as I foresaw (which happened) the precious metal fund took off and I could not take part.

I then started to look at the stocks in these funds and their charts. The internet was providing more services for free after 2000. I discovered Stockcharts.com somewhere around then and started to REALLY learn charting at that point. I then started to simulate trading...giving myself $100,000 (much like I am doing in my current trading Journal here).

I never understand newbies who want to find a simulation website to test their mettle on. I always wonder if those sites rely on a realtime data feed or are random number generators. It is very simple to set up your own spreadsheet for record keeping and track your transactions and on a weekly basis see how well you are doing.

I should say here that I am a long term swing and investment trader.

I always wanted to eventually invest in stocks but did not know how to get a broker. This was solved for me as the company I had joined had a sweet deal...every quarter they let you buy up to 10% of your annual salary in company stock and they would match it with the equivalent amount which was immediately vested....not only that but they paid the brokerage...I now had a broker.

The wheels fell off this arrangement a year later when the company was bought out...also My picks were making money...the broker picks were not...I lost money due to the full service fees I had to pay...it was then I learned about discount trading...I switched and never looked back.

Conclusion (when will he stop talking)

What I am trying to point out, is that I took about 20 years to learn how to trade. Too often I see newbies come into the game with no idea how to do it. They think it is easy money and throw good money after bad until they tap out. There seems to be an attitude that you have to MAKE FAST MONEY. The trouble is that fast money = high risk and one bad trading move and wipe out months of gains...especially those whose trading mantra is make 1%-2% and out.

I see newbies blindly asking others about where to put their money falling for dump and dump scams like lemmings.

I am happy to see my brokerage account increase by 5-7% (after subtracting living expenses) per year.

Would it take 20 years for me to get to the same position that I am today? ...no, of course not. The free resources on the internet now make that education curve a lot shorter than what was available 25 years ago. I would though practice trading for about 5 years if I started today, while building up a decent poke to trade with until I consistently had a winning investment plan.

AND I specialize...I don't day trade though I find it interesting from a charting POV (it is just too much work and the tax considerations are too onerous for me) ... I don't do FOREX (seems manipulated to me) and I don't do OPTIONS (though I have thought about it and had an account opened but after trying to figure out the ends/outs of it I gave up...it seems you learn by ACTUALLY DOING and that is too much of a tuition for me.)

So I specialize in long term swing and investment...and it works for me...and oh yeah...the education part...it is on-going...never ends.


Last edited by Underexposed; April 5th, 2014 at 02:40 PM.
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  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
London + UK
 
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Daytrader999 View Post
Keep cool Matt, I'm sure he didn't mean it that way.

Perhaps he refers to the fact that a broker always gets paid regardless if a trader wins or loses...

Yes exactly what I meant. Thanks :-)

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  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
London + UK
 
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mattz View Post
I just did not want others to view us as a "transaction people" only. We do our best to help in any capacity so customers may see us as long term partners.
If my replies seemed aggressive, I apologize, this was not my intention as I just try to fight the notion that brokers on one side of the tracks while the customers are on the other.
I should have given more credit to those who have been long term traders who know this is not the case and let them reply.

Matt,

There's no need for that sort of comment here to be honest it comes off as an unduly aggressive attack by Optimus, which isn't that productive for anyone looking to potentially do business with you. This isn't a Optimus specific thread so I'm not out to say you're not client focused nor that you're only profit focused. In fact I didn't mention Optimus at all because this is nothing about Optimus frankly.

I don't think many professionals would argue my comment is at all controversial, as the follow up comments from senior futures.io (formerly BMT) member daytrader999 have hopefully illustrated. To quote @Daytrader999 'a broker always gets paid regardless if a trader wins or loses'. Spot on and exactly the view I was hoping to convey.

Lets keep it real any business that's not a charity is in operation to provide a certain service level to their clients yes but to ultimately maximise potential profits. The same is as true for brokers as is for us here that operate trading businesses.

To provide perspective, I ignore operating cost in my earlier comment to simplify because in reality both brokers and traders incur costs in running their businesses. However crucially, an intermediary generally profits regardless of the success of their clients, whereas the same is not true for the clients themselves in that sense they're certainly disparate operating models. And that is my point, and certainly not to demean the efforts put in by genuinely hard working people that have setup businesses.

That's the context. I hope that's cleared up for you now. Also your apology is accepted!

Thanks.

Sands.

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  #20 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
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sands View Post
However crucially, an intermediary generally profits regardless of the success of their clients, whereas the same is not true for the clients themselves in that sense they're certainly disparate operating models. And that is my point, and certainly not to demean the efforts put in by genuinely hard working people that have setup businesses.

Those who know me, spoke to me or corresponded with me over time know that I am the least aggressive person you can find in this business. Everybody who has done business with us has done so because our spirit to help and our dedication to technology.
The view that I have quoted above is a micro view, not a macro view of our business.
If you are looking on a per transaction business, you are right but unsuccessful customers move on, change brokers, platforms, etc Although we can't be responsible for success we must/try provide the best foundation for traders to operate on.

I am sorry but regardless of your intention you have hit a nerve with me when you say that being an intermediary is a guaranteed way to make money.

This will be my final comment on this thread, but I want to leave it on a good note saying that I do understand how difficult it is to be on your side as well facing all the options, and combating the difficult markets. I wish you well in trading.

Matt

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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