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I did post a list of CME criteria back in @michaelleemoore's thread, and it did include some of the criteria you mentioned. FWIW, you are an independent contractor with TST, not an employee.
Not that I think that is determinative. The wording is something like, "acting on behalf of....", which clearly makes your employment status not the point. Contractors will be included.
Great question. Let me say first that I don't know. (So you won't be getting a non-answer, you won't be getting any answer.... just to be clear. :sarcastic:)
I can tell you what I think, and why.
It is a CME rule that you must pay the …
Edit: just noticed that it's the same form as @grausch posted.... oops. But there's also an attempt to parse the meaning, which is a little different....
1) There is a pro definition as far as the CME and that is for data fees
2) There is a definition of a pro as far as as the SRO (NFA) is concerned.
These are totally different because one focused on data fees (CME) and one is concerned with you being licensed in the futures industry.
So are you guys trying to determine whether you need to pay pro fees for quotes and data or registered and being licensed?
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
My fault, I started it..doah.. I am due to give a talk to Latin finance students etc. about retail futures trading. I'm not going to sex it up too much, I'm actually worried about corrupting young minds with get rich quick ideas but some number may benefit.
My question was if someone already has a non-pro broker account and they get funded with TST, are they "pro" across the board and need to update their self-certification (or not) and pay pro fees on any data they get.
There seems to be ambiguity on whether when your trading you personal funds in a self-directed brokerage account will you lose access to the cheap data bundles. If someone's system has extra internals Tick & VIX, Eurex for reference etc, it could put a TST trader paying maybe $450 p/m which is too much for a new trader.
Understood. let me do some digging and consult with some guys. My answers should not be construe as legal advice because many areas are grey areas. I will try and answer it shortly.
Thanks,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
It would affect very few in reality of course, just a few student (there are a few) who have small accounts already. Edit: a bunch of them won some business student trader competition thing I gather. It also crossed my mind to do a TST combine myself so as to explain it better but its messy for me. I might do the combine but not go funded of course.
Again, please consult with all concerned parties, and this is not legal advice, rather I am conveying my interpretation of the facts gathered.
The CME rule says that if you manage actual capital for anyone besides your own, you are considered a pro.
Especially when you share a potential for profit. Once you are a pro, you are one across all your accounts and you have to update your status with your FCM.
If you think to the contrary, please state your opinion based on rules and regs, not gut feel, intuition, etc.
Thank you,
Matt Zimberg
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
The CME states the following as part of its rules:
The Non-Professional Subscriber’s Use of Information must:
(f) be solely for the Subscriber’s personal or private use;
(g) be limited to managing the Subscriber’s own assets, and
not be used in connection with the management of any
assets of any third party(ies) in any capacity.
So we established that when you are allocated capital and trade for others, you are a Pro.
When it comes to applying this across all your accounts, is not something that I referenced within CME rule book.
Instead, I called data feed providers and consulted with those who apply it within the FCMs.
They told me that once you are a pro, they need to apply it across all accounts with your name.
There is logic to what they say because CME also says:
"Are Non-Professional Subscriber fees applicable,
if I meet some, but not all of the criteria?
No, all criteria must be met to qualify for the Non-Professional
Subscriber fees."
As you see I have tried to gather info from industry contacts and info that is available to me.
It very well may be that your FCM may apply a different policy. If you are given assets to manage, please call your FCM and ask them whether your personal funds account would fall under the Pro category. Maybe they can present a different perspective and approach to avoid Pro fees. I would be glad to know about it and learn further (not being sarcastic).
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
I don't have a "dog in this fight" - it's just purely interest and professional curiosity.
When the CME says 'The Non-Professional Subscriber’s Use of Information must...', is there any room to interpret that sentence to mean that the use of information for the feed you are subscribing to is bound to those rules?
In other words, can we not have one subscription, which is bound by those rules (because it relates to a personal account), and have another, separate, subscription for which the Use of Information would force the subscriber to be classed as Pro?
I understand that standard practice for the data feed providers you surveyed says otherwise. I am just exploring with you the possibility of giving the wording of the CME rules a different interpretation.
