The Wall Street Code - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


The Wall Street Code
Updated: Views / Replies:11,279 / 96
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:6

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 6  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

The Wall Street Code

  #61 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 88 since May 2012
Thanks: 53 given, 90 received


artemiso View Post
@Outlier said that a "HFT" erodes your return during the trade entry and exit. Well, imagine a market without low latency electronic market-makers then.

I made no such generalization but was talking about a specific example of queue-jumping.

I actually differentiate between trading activities and believe that some have social value, like true risk taking, true market making and provision of real liquidity, actual arbitrage.

Whereas other activities I think are detrimental, for example any abuse of exploits, queue-jumping, front-running, excessive cancellation to fill ratios (wanting to get something for nothing), quote-stuffing, spoofing, layering, market manipulation, insider trading.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Outlier for this post:
 
  #62 (permalink)
Elite Member
SK, Canada
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Ninja Trader
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
72truckster's Avatar
 
Posts: 41 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 184 given, 30 received

Two questions/comments. No malice intended.

I find it interesting that you use the word "dominated". I know that it is in terms of speed.



Quoting 
an instrument that we knew each other dominated.



Quoting 
We have a huge forecasting advantage over anyone.

Now if I dominated a "trading space" for example the 5min chart of instrument XYZ, in the above two ways,
would all the other traders not throw up their arms in the air and cry "no fair"?

Secondly if you do not trade against retail. Where do your profits come from?


Quoting 
We don't compete against retail. Our strategies compete in a totally different space

Are you trying to screw the other five firms that dominate, or any HFT's slower than you? If it is slippage or market "inefficincies" then it would seem that the argument that HFT's provide liquidity, becomes mute, because they simply take profits from the inefficencies that they create through adding liquidity.

Thanks

Reply With Quote
 
  #63 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.nanex.net 
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NxCore
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 18 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 32 received

This is just patently wrong


I'd quote the text, but it seems to have been deleted! Here's a screen capture I took at the time:

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


The FOMC news was released in NY and Chicago at exactly 2pm - after having been preloaded on servers before 2pm, Period.

I don't even know where to begin with the statement labeled "1."

Here was our response to Virtu (who should have known better than to submit such bad science). I made it as simple as possible, but no simpler:

Nanex ~ 28-Sep-2013 ~ Shredding Virtu's Response with Science

-nanex

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to nanex for this post:
 
  #64 (permalink)
Elite Member
Manchester, NH
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkorswim
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 902 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 603 given, 1,785 received


Outlier View Post
I made no such generalization but was talking about a specific example of queue-jumping.

I actually differentiate between trading activities and believe that some have social value, like true risk taking, true market making and provision of real liquidity, actual arbitrage.

Whereas other activities I think are detrimental, for example any abuse of exploits, queue-jumping, front-running, excessive cancellation to fill ratios (wanting to get something for nothing), quote-stuffing, spoofing, layering, market manipulation, insider trading.

Sure, I think that all these activities are exploitative. The whole reason that I am participating in this thread is because I want to show concrete evidence that we do none of these.

Reply With Quote
 
  #65 (permalink)
Elite Member
Manchester, NH
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkorswim
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 902 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 603 given, 1,785 received


72truckster View Post
Two questions/comments. No malice intended.

I find it interesting that you use the word "dominated". I know that it is in terms of speed.

Now if I dominated a "trading space" for example the 5min chart of instrument XYZ, in the above two ways,
would all the other traders not throw up their arms in the air and cry "no fair"?

"Dominated" is the most accurate word that I can use.

I don't want to specify names because I have many close friends in these firms, but there are 3 firms that I want to describe.

There's a U.S. firm that does outright the most volume on the CME (by the way, this firm also does the most volume on the Eurex among all U.S. firms, but there are bigger European-based players on the Eurex). Then there are 2 firms in Amsterdam that dominate options market-making and trading between displayed markets and anything that's OTC or on ECNs and liquidity pools respectively. Now, the U.S. firm is very well-capitalized, more so than the two Dutch firms. (To put this in perspective, only until very recently, one of those 2 Dutch firms was deleting their historical data because they had simply so much data and not enough space and bandwidth to coordinate all of it firmwide.)

When you're one of these 3 firms, you're not going to get any preferential treatment from market data vendors, the exchange or regulators over the other 2. You're also capable of the same speeds because you're nearly at the theoretical limit of your hardware. So what happens when the richer firm tries to force its way into a space that another firm has traditionally dominated?

Now, the said U.S. firm tried for a while to force their way into options market-making by sheer financial firepower. And they failed miserably to the point that they had to cut back their infrastructure spending on those markets because otherwise they would just be making net losses after infrastructure. I know that their management is against market fragmentation, but they are so dominant in the futures business that they only way to expand is laterally, so they began trying to get into the dark pool business. They are yet to pose any competition to the other Dutch firm in this area as well.

I think this example is beautifully illustrative. Firstly, if even the most prominent 'HFT' firm in the world is unable to penetrate a market with its financial firepower, what can you say of the firms that have created such a monopoly in that particular market? Secondly, it shows that the reason that the fastest firms are doing well has nothing to do with speed or preferential treatment. It's just an order of magnitude's difference in our trading models for the things that we specialize in.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to artemiso for this post:
 
  #66 (permalink)
Elite Member
Manchester, NH
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkorswim
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 902 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 603 given, 1,785 received


72truckster View Post
Secondly if you do not trade against retail. Where do your profits come from?

Well, it's easier to prove by contraposition here. The retail market is microscopic; you can't explain the revenue across our industry based on the hypothesis that we trade against retail traders, so surely there has to be something more.

As for where our profits come from, I think that varies from firm to firm and strategy to strategy, so my answer wouldn't really amount to anything.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to artemiso for this post:
 
  #67 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.nanex.net 
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NxCore
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 18 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 32 received

It's easy to be right all the time with a delete key

Deleting old posts that turn out to be wrong is an easy way to convince others you know what you are talking about. But sooner or later, someone will capture your misguided rants, and no amount of shouting or name calling will save you.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to nanex for this post:
 
  #68 (permalink)
Banned: trolling
NYC + NY / USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
Favorite Futures: EMD, 6J, ZB
 
kronie's Avatar
 
Posts: 798 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 216 given, 498 received

I voted, and will simply say: "priceless",


the poll asked what is futures.io (formerly BMT) worth (just in case, over time, it disappears and the reference becomes irrelevant; huh, where's spell checker?)


I couldn't even afford to be in the same room with some of the participants on this thread. I will say, it has been highly informative and shed volumes of light on what would otherwise be secretive internal corporate communication and trade craft.

@artemiso, @nanex, @72truckster, @lookOutBelow

kudos for sharing and enlightening all of us with your comments, insights and such
such bantering back and forth allows each of us to schmaltz without offense...


good trading to us all!

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to kronie for this post:
 
  #69 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.nanex.net 
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NxCore
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 18 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 32 received

New Evidence from McKay Brothers Founder

I'm posting this here because there has been a lot of mis-information and bad science in this thread surrounding the 9/18 FOMC news release. Stephane Tyc, a founder of the McKay Brothers (the microwave telecom guys) published a new paper today that corroborates our findings Nanex ~ 20-Sep-2013 ~ Einstein and The Great Fed Robbery

-nanex

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to nanex for this post:
 
  #70 (permalink)
Elite Member
Manchester, NH
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkorswim
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 902 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 603 given, 1,785 received



nanex View Post
Deleting old posts that turn out to be wrong is an easy way to convince others you know what you are talking about. But sooner or later, someone will capture your misguided rants, and no amount of shouting or name calling will save you.

It's amazing how you can spin a conspiracy theory out of everything. I've only personally requested Mike to take down content twice on this forum, and for legitimate reasons. In fact, I even left the content untouched in my post for 2 hours after I noticed him taking it down in his quote.


nanex View Post
The FOMC news was released in NY and Chicago at exactly 2pm - after having been preloaded on servers before 2pm, Period.

I don't even know where to begin with the statement labeled "1."

Here was our response to Virtu (who should have known better than to submit such bad science). I made it as simple as possible, but no simpler:

Nanex ~ 28-Sep-2013 ~ Shredding Virtu's Response with Science

There's nothing I can do to respond to your post if all you can say is that you (1) "don't know where to begin" and with that, conclude that I'm (2) "patently wrong".

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > The Wall Street Code

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wall Street Warriors Big Mike Traders Hideout 14 January 3rd, 2013 01:39 AM
Psychos on Wall Street kbit News and Current Events 2 March 5th, 2012 11:51 PM
shit-wall-street-says madLyfe Jokes 0 February 16th, 2012 09:20 AM
Wall Street Bonuses Big Mike Off-Topic 2 October 26th, 2011 11:43 PM
Wall Street's Favorite Drugs kbit News and Current Events 0 May 10th, 2011 07:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:33 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-11 in 0.38 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.145.16.43