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The End of Day Trading
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The End of Day Trading

  #31 (permalink)
Elite Member
orlando Florida
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: stocks
 
Posts: 2 since Sep 2013
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If every business was easy.....

Kosher,

Think of your business in trading like a sandwich shop in a local market. If you are a sole proprietor and you own a great sandwich shop you are going to be competing with the local subway stores in your area... all 100 of them. They have leverage, they have computer systems, they have a human resource strategy, they buy bread and meats cheaper/faster/fresher than you can.... yet.... you can still survive off selling sandwiches.

This means the local sandwich market is rigged. They run flash advertising on TV... 5 DOLLAR foot long... you can't compete with that.....

You can survive by finding your niche. Find out where your place is in the market and exploit it. Don't compete with Subway on their own turf. You will not survive.

With regards to HFT and Algos, use them to your advantage. LOL, I bet if you entered a trade on the GC (like last Friday) short prior to the market opening because you were looking for a "small" pullback just to find yourself in the green by 28 handles 5 seconds later you would be telling us how helpful they are.

Not sure if this is helpful.

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  #32 (permalink)
Vendor self-promotion
Cyprus
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 68 since Jul 2013
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KosherTrader View Post
I believe the markets to more rigged against the nonprofessional than casinos are and they are getting perpetually worse for retail traders. With ever-decreasing latencies and processors and new algorithms being developed by the brightest minds in the world to increase firms' competitive advantage over retail traders this is an important issue.

The question is, which will make day traders extinct first, US gov taxes or high-frequency trading institutions?

This is one of the best periods ever for day trading.Very often there is money left on the sidewalk for traders to pick up. Money coming from the FED. Straight up trends during the day like last week with strong gains. Several day traders I know made large profits last week. Price patterns also work much better than 5 years ago. I have no idea why some people are complaining other than the possibility they lack the skill and they think daytrading means easy money without any work to be done.

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  #33 (permalink)
Elite Member
Maastricht, The netherlands
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader and Multicharts
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It is a fact that the last 8 years more than 85% of the daytrading firms went bankrupt. Daytrading is a complex business with more than 96% losers.

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  #34 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boston, MA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT & SC
Broker/Data: DDT and SC/CQG
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Theodutchtrader View Post
It is a fact that the last 8 years more than 85% of the daytrading firms went bankrupt. Daytrading is a complex business with more than 96% losers.

Hi,

I'm curious, what is your source for this statement? Any reference material will help enrich the discussion.

Thanks!

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk 2

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  #35 (permalink)
Elite Member
Maastricht, The netherlands
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader and Multicharts
Favorite Futures: ES,NQ.YM and dutch stocks
 
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Google at Google for a look at a list of 200 proprietary trading firms (tradernarrative.com) an you will see the most of them are out of business.

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  #36 (permalink)
Banned: Negative attitude, troll
Winchester VA/USA
 
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Theodutchtrader View Post
It is a fact that the last 8 years more than 85% of the daytrading firms went bankrupt. Daytrading is a complex business with more than 96% losers.

Those would be the firms that recruit the brightest quants right out of top-tier univerisities, right?

I think even the most successful day traders usually retire into writing and teaching about trading (like Jim Dalton) and longer term trading as they age, with the exception of Al Brooks and a few unknowns.

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  #37 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boston, MA
 
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Theodutchtrader View Post
Google at Google for a look at a list of 200 proprietary trading firms (tradernarrative.com) an you will see the most of them are out of business.

Thanks! This list of prop trading firms compiled in 2007 looks interesting ...

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/list-of-proprietary-trading-firms-735.html

... but it says nothing of why they succeed or fail. Day trading firms may fail due to reasons other than day-trading e.g.: poor leadership, poor management of technical details, under capitalization, etc. So, what is it about the activity of "day-trading" that makes firms fail? The answer to this question may get at the core of this thread's discussion ...

Joe

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  #38 (permalink)
Elite Member
Maastricht, The netherlands
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader and Multicharts
Favorite Futures: ES,NQ.YM and dutch stocks
 
Posts: 15 since Nov 2011
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@bluecrow, You have to have to ask all those firms why those firms are out of business. I think the market did change drastically for those firms but also for the profitable daytraders.

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  #39 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boston, MA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT & SC
Broker/Data: DDT and SC/CQG
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bluecrow's Avatar
 
Posts: 42 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 163 given, 44 received


Theodutchtrader View Post
@bluecrow, You have to have to ask all those firms why those firms are out of business. I think the market did change drastically for those firms but also for the profitable daytraders.

So we are none the wiser, and we don't actually know if over "8 years more than 85% of the daytrading firms went bankrupt" and "more than 96% losers". If we had accurate numbers and knew exact why they fail, then we could move forward.

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  #40 (permalink)
Banned: Negative attitude, troll
Winchester VA/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ThinkOrSwim
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 57 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 17 given, 11 received



bluecrow View Post
Thanks! This list of prop trading firms compiled in 2007 looks interesting ...

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/list-of-proprietary-trading-firms-735.html

... but it says nothing of why they succeed or fail. Day trading firms may fail due to reasons other than day-trading e.g.: poor leadership, poor management of technical details, under capitalization, etc. So, what is it about the activity of "day-trading" that makes firms fail? The answer to this question may get at the core of this thread's discussion ...

Joe

Under capitalization is unlikely considering the leverage large firms use.

If a day trading firm failed because of poor management chances are it would be related to the day trading business, such as in ineffective screening and educational training for hiring potential traders. It is very difficult to gauge performance of how good any potential day trader will be prior to hiring them. This is an extremely difficult business where any negative personality or cognitive impairment can lead to catastrophic losses in a very brief period of time.

Generally, the appeal of daytrading is more in the challenge and adrenaline rush more than the potential for a long lasting career.

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