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Pro Poker no Longer

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  #1 (permalink)
CaseyNewYork
Ithaca NY
 
 
Posts: 6 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 17 given, 2 received

Hey Everyone,

I'm a 28 year old that is back in college pursuing a computer science degree. I was actually a professional poker player for almost a decade, and was even hired by a major online poker site to "host" games or keep games going. The money was great, I even have some major tournament wins under my belt. I also got to travel the world. But I felt like I wanted more, the increased competition, and online poker being shut down for US players all got me on the road I am on today. At least the stress of being a poker player has prepared me for trading.

I find myself with tons of time these days, and I find myself reading about the stock market more and more. I am almost clueless when it comes to trading, and this forum looks like it could be great for someone with an open mind like me. I don't even know which type of trading interests me most yet. Of course I need something for the long term, but am also drawn in by the appeal of day trading futures and commodities. What books should I read? What sites should I frequent? Where do I go to get information on stocks to help me make a profitable trade? Are there coaches out there for traders as green as me? The questions could go on and on.

I plan on helping everybody I can to the best of my ability (which will be limited with my knowledge as of now hahaha), and I hope to recieve the same in return. I believe the moment a person stops learning, or believes he/she doesnt have to, is the moment a person stops growing. This forum could be the beginning of something awesome, hope to meet some great people.

Casey

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  #3 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
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CaseyNewYork View Post
Hey Everyone,

I'm a 28 year old that is back in college pursuing a computer science degree. I was actually a professional poker player for almost a decade, and was even hired by a major online poker site to "host" games or keep games going. The money was great, I even have some major tournament wins under my belt. I also got to travel the world. But I felt like I wanted more, the increased competition, and online poker being shut down for US players all got me on the road I am on today. At least the stress of being a poker player has prepared me for trading.

I find myself with tons of time these days, and I find myself reading about the stock market more and more. I am almost clueless when it comes to trading, and this forum looks like it could be great for someone with an open mind like me. I don't even know which type of trading interests me most yet. Of course I need something for the long term, but am also drawn in by the appeal of day trading futures and commodities. What books should I read? What sites should I frequent? Where do I go to get information on stocks to help me make a profitable trade? Are there coaches out there for traders as green as me? The questions could go on and on.

I plan on helping everybody I can to the best of my ability (which will be limited with my knowledge as of now hahaha), and I hope to recieve the same in return. I believe the moment a person stops learning, or believes he/she doesnt have to, is the moment a person stops growing. This forum could be the beginning of something awesome, hope to meet some great people.

Casey


Congrats on pursuing your computer science degree - be sure to finish that. If you're having success playing poker - keep playing. Money spends all the same whether it comes from a plain vanilla W2 job, from cashed in chips at the poker table, or from a weekly trading account sweep.

Right now, trading means so many different things. One route is to learn how to sell volatility based premium on actively traded derivatives. This is a primarily non-directional approach to trading and while accessible, there is a learning curve. Another route is to trade futures with a directional bias. Be careful with this route because there are about a million vendors out there willing to teach you an "easy" way to do it. It's not easy, so save your money - and use that as a litmus test for anything you consider investing your time into. If someone says it's easy, or offers a short-cut, put your hand on your wallet and squeeze.

As foreboding as it must be, this forum is a treasure of valuable information. It will take some time to separate the wheat from the chafe. But on this forum, it will be time well spent. Good luck.

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  #4 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, SC, ToS
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Posts: 2,135 since Jul 2011
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Welcome to futures.io (formerly BMT). You've come to the right place. The journals here offer examples of other trading endeavors. And this is the best moderated site out there with vendor spam strictly enforced. Plenty of reviews here too. Surprised to hear banning of online poker in the U.S.? There are a lot of trading books but no set definitive "scientific" works on practical trading methods since market behavior is mostly mass psychology and an auction bidding process which can only be approximated in behavior but never precisely predicted by analysis. But there are methods and elements to learn that can provide incremental edges better to have learned than not. One of the more popular methods is price action and the 3 set by Dr. Al Brooks is a substantial favorite here on futures.io (formerly BMT).

Link to a list of links to introductary trading videos: Many are excellent futures.io (formerly BMT) webinars freely available to watch via youtube.


Computer Science may be a useful major to help with your trading endeavors. Classes I would recommend to take in the major could be Simulation, AI, Software Engineering. You could do projects on algorithmic and/or HFT trading. I recall one guy did a project of neural networks on the weather. Whether it really worked was besides the point. Anyways highly advised to trade sim only until you find or create the methods you feel comfortable to trade with. For example some say to only trade live when one reaches a consistent "profit factor" of >= 2.0(or 1.5) on the Ninjatrader stats. Good luck.

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  #5 (permalink)
CaseyNewYork
Ithaca NY
 
 
Posts: 6 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 17 given, 2 received

Thanks, every bit of info helps, and /i've already started watching some of those videos you've responded to me. Yeah online poker was shut down for US players over a year ago. There are still some very small sites still running with very long waits for cashouts (who knows how they are eluding the law). Things may change in the future.

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  #6 (permalink)
 TrendTraderBH 
Detroit, Michigan
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 299 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 511 given, 286 received

Welcome to the trading World. Although I just watched these videos, about a sponsored trading challenge in the UK, I wish I would have watched them at the very beginning of my journey to give me a hint as to what I would be dealing with. They are fun to watch and very instructive to those embarking on this journey. It's almost like watching a poker tournament but less boring. Good luck to you (although you have already had great luck finding futures.io (formerly BMT) prior to starting):

Million Dollar Traders (Full Series 1 of 3) - YouTube

Million Dollar Traders (Full Series 2 of 3) - YouTube

Million Dollar Traders (Full Series 3 of 3) - YouTube

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  #7 (permalink)
 MWinfrey 
Lubbock TX
 
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Welcome to futures.io (formerly BMT)...I suggest that you spend no money yet on trading education or materials. The vast majority of businesses offering trading services are rip-offs and I mean that literally. Snake oil is all over the place. So, paying for a service or product will most likely be from one of the unscrupulous vendors.

Money I suggest you spend is for an Elite membership here at futures.io (formerly BMT). That is more than enough to get you started. At some point, you will need a charting package, datafeed, and a minimally funded brokerage account. The minimally funded brokerage account isn't for live trading yet. It's merely there to give you access to the brokerage services and more specifically a datafeed. Whatever you do, don't buy indicators from anyone. There is a wealth of indicators here at futures.io (formerly BMT). However, I suggest you not put any indicators on any chart at the beginning. Otherwise you will go down the path that most of us have only to end up removing them when you discover they are misleading at best. Many successfully use indicators and you will see that in the journals here on futures.io (formerly BMT). However, I'm suggesting you stick to naked charts and get used to watching the markets move without them.

Good luck,

Mike

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  #8 (permalink)
 rwh03001 
stamford, connecticut
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, ToS
Trading: Currency Futures
 
Posts: 14 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 15 given, 12 received

Hey Casey,

Welcome to the forums! Black Friday left me unemployed as well, and I slowly made the logical step to the markets. I'm still in the early learning phases, but I have picked up a few things that you may find useful. If I were you, here is the order I would follow to get started:

1. Find what you like and focus on that. Much like there is no sense in trying to learn both Hold'em and Omaha from scratch simultaneously, focusing your efforts on one section of the market at a time is your best bet. So what do you like? Stocks? Options? Futures/currencies? (I am very much in to futures). Research them all, know what each market represents and how it works, and find which appeals to you the most (most poker players will go the options or futures route due to the leverage involved).

2. Download NinjaTrader (NT) and learn how to use it. I don't have a computer science background, and I found the software a bit daunting at first, but there are good tutorial videos on how to get started, and I'm growing more proficient with it each day. Once you watch the tutorial videos, you'll probably be inundated with a ton of charting options and variables that make no sense to you. Research them! Find out what the difference between time bars, and range bars, and tick data is. Learn the difference between a market order and a limit order. Learn about, and how to set, Stops.

Once you get NT set up and functioning, familiarize yourself with 1 or 2 investments/commodities. Get a basic idea of how they move, how much they move, what the driving forces are. Use the free after-market data feed that Ninja Trader provides. Later, if you have a bit of disposable income available, fund your account in order to get a real-time data feed. However, I cannot stress enough that the reason behind funding your account is so that you can acquire INFORMATION and learn how the market works in real time. Do NOT trade with that money for at least 6 months..

3. Now that you know a little bit about your market and the software you'll use to trade it, start following people who know more than you. Big Mike's is the best place I've found so far. It's the 2+2 of the trading world, and some very intelligent people have created journals and documented their experiences while fielding questions from followers and bouncing ideas off of peers. This is how you'll learn about the intricacies of your market. At first, you'll see what other people are doing and try to apply it for yourself (you'll likely fail), and eventually you'll take the bits and pieces you've learned from everybody and start to form your own perceptions of the market and how it applies to you.

You asked about books - Books on trading are much like books on poker; there are a lot of them, and most were written by people who now find it more profitable to write a book than to trade/play (not a good sign). With the exception of books on how to gain an emotional edge, you are better off sticking to educational forums and following the posts, journals, and journeys of more experienced traders. I've learned a lot by being confused about forum discussions between more knowledgeable people, and then just researching those topics.

4. Start to employ indicators into the markets you follow. Indicators are the equivalent of a HUD on the poker tables. They won't make you a profitable trader, but they will certainly help IF you know how to use them. As you know, players with nearly identical HUD stats can differ drastically in profitability. In the same vein, having a good indicator does not make up for the discretion required to make good decisions. Also, learn what each indicator is designed to show, and WHY it does that. A 'folds button to 3-bet' stat will only hurt someone who misinterprets its use.

5. READ THIS THREAD:

6. Buy a subscription to Big Mike's. I bought mine over the weekend, and I am simply amazed at the value it has provided in my trading education.

Good luck!

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  #9 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Posts: 2,489 since Sep 2010
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I always find it fascinating that people from the gambling world find their way to trading.
You have no idea what advantage you have over others when it comes to crowd psychology analysis, but you simply don't get to "read faces", and instead you see panic and euphoria as it manifests itself through price action.
You will see "timid markets", "crazy markets" and what you guys call the "elephant"
These all make the market place, and sooner than later you will learn to recognize them.

Just on a more positive note, there are good mentors and educators out there like there are in poker.
There are number of sites, which I frequently visit because it adds a different perspective.
I dont mind buying from if I consider them to add to my foundation as a trader.
You will find that most will call someone a "scam" because he/she method's did not work, yet the material as far as
foundation is incredible. I always say, if you seek mentors, and it seems you are, choose people that are good at what they do. You will find their approach is balanced, and they don't hype anything and the focus is on risk and strategy.

This site is awesome, and you will find VERY good info here.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #10 (permalink)
 plethora 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: GC
 
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MWinfrey View Post
Whatever you do, don't buy indicators from anyone. There is a wealth of indicators here at futures.io (formerly BMT). However, I suggest you not put any indicators on any chart at the beginning. Otherwise you will go down the path that most of us have only to end up removing them when you discover they are misleading at best. Many successfully use indicators and you will see that in the journals here on futures.io (formerly BMT). However, I'm suggesting you stick to naked charts and get used to watching the markets move without them.

Good luck,

Mike

With these nuggets in mind, consider Al Brooks, MD, course reading Price Action on Naked Charts. In fact, Brooks will be giving a Webinar here at futures.io (formerly BMT) in several days. See what you think of him. He's the real deal.

https://brookstradingcourse.com/

ETA: Yes, as someone mentioned, invest in a free trial of NinjaTrader, then purchase the license instead of leasing it. You won't find a better group of support technicians at NT who consistently go beyond the call of duty to help you ramp up on the trading platform. Ninja offers "Market Replay", which as it sounds, allows you to replay the market. How many poker games did it take you to become Pro? That's how often you should use this too often overlooked tool.

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 plethora 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: Rithmic
Trading: GC
 
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mattz View Post
You will find that most will call someone a "scam" because he/she method's did not work, yet the material as far as foundation is incredible.

I'd be interested in your list of scammers, I mean educators, whose foundation is incredulous, oh my, I mean "incredible".

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 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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plethora View Post
I'd be interested in your list of scammers, I mean educators, whose foundation is "incredible".

If you want to join the rest of the mob mentality where everyone is trashed, go ahead.
I will never post who I like here because of this exact same thing you represent with your sarcasm.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #13 (permalink)
 plethora 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: Rithmic
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Given, my tone was admittedly sarcastic, however, my intellectual curiousity was sincere. In fact, you may not recall but we had several phone conversations related to this subject and I don't recall a single recommendation. I am not a poker player, but I am calling your bluff.

ETA: You, my friend, mentioned Market Profile and said it was essential. But you were hard pressed to say how to learn it.

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 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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plethora View Post
Given, my tone was admittedly sarcastic, however, my intellectual curiousity was sincere. In fact, you may not recall but we had several phone conversations related to this subject and I don't recall a single recommendation. I am not a poker player, but I am calling your bluff.

Yes, I do remember that and I even remember your first name. In fact, I was the one who has turned you onto Big Mike because I thought that it would be a great resource for you....but I guess that does not count.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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 plethora 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: GC
 
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mattz View Post
If you want to join the rest of the mob mentality where everyone is trashed, go ahead.

For some reason you overlooked the accolades for Al Brooks and Ninja Trader and I won't begin to analyze it as I'm pre-occupied working on myself. Trading and the whole nine yards...

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  #16 (permalink)
 plethora 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: Rithmic
Trading: GC
 
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mattz View Post
... I even remember your first name.

You should, I won a monitor at your Webinar.

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  #17 (permalink)
CaseyNewYork
Ithaca NY
 
 
Posts: 6 since Dec 2012
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Thanks for all the useful information!

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