Recommedation - Micro Futures vs Micro Forex - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Recommedation - Micro Futures vs Micro Forex
Updated: Views / Replies:2,528 / 15
Created: by V i m Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Recommedation - Micro Futures vs Micro Forex

  #1 (permalink)
Temet nosce.
Northern Indiana, USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: M6E, 6E
 
V i m's Avatar
 
Posts: 137 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 87 given, 66 received

Recommedation - Micro Futures vs Micro Forex

I have read a few futures.io (formerly BMT) threads/webinars concerning the benefits for new traders using micro instruments to learn from initially. I believe this is probably the correct path for me to take as I continue to educate myself. However, what I have read so far hasn't seemed to clarify a choice for me yet. I was hoping to elicit experienced feedback between the two choices (or something entirely different), and to a lesser degree suggestions on platform/broker/feed to use with whatever is being suggested. It would be very helpful to me to keep in mind the details below with regard to my own situation, although general comments are welcome in case others might find this thread useful.

My details:
- I wont be doing anything but following charts with minimal sim trading for the next month so a free platform and feed would be excellent if such a thing exists (broker trial, etc).
- I am currently developing a trading plan and no real money will be used until that is complete. But I would prefer to learn on the same instrument as I will eventually trade live with.
- When/if I go to live cash I will be starting with up to 20k if necessary, however I would be much more comfortable with 5-10k at first. Another 10k might be available to add to capital in six months IF I have been consistently profitable. But at that point were probably talking "scared money". I give this info only to clarify that reaching the pattern day trading minimum of 25k+ will be unlikely for me for awhile.
- I am starting with a bias against Spot Forex because I just don't like the idea of it not being regulated, along with a less favorable tax structure. However, if its cheaper for me to learn on, even with potential spread "stealing" - then so be it. Also what concerns me is spending a lot of time learning Forex, knowing I may not want to stay there. I am too much of a rookie trader to know what knowledge I can transfer to another instrument at this point.
- My gut points me to M6E but reading about big spreads, not enough liquidity, and limited trade time windows worries me. Please challenge these poorly informed notions I have if you know better.
- The actual currency is open for me, however I've probably just defaulted to EUR/USD simply because I have read it has more liquidity.
- Somewhat partial to ninja trader, but only from what I have read. No real experience.
- In my education so far, what really resonates with me are Van Tharp's beliefs and short term technical discretionary trading (price action). Also I tend to like William O'neil's system for long term trading, but that will be for a separate equity trading account someday. I will, of course, develop my own systems but this is just for reference in case the kind of trading I am considering has any bearing on your recommendations

I know that is a lot (maybe too much info!), so thank you in advance. I appreciate being able participate in this forum, this site is wonderful.

Reply With Quote
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: 6E, M6E, 6J
 
Xav1029's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,374 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 1,452 given, 3,354 received

M6E


Here some points on the M6E, which I trade every day for similar reasons as you:
-The M6E has 1-2 tick spread about 90% of the time
-The depth is there, just not volume
-Chart the 6E, trade the M6E
-Use market orders, this again relates to the depth being there, but not the volume
-If you are scalping, commissions might eat you up(depending on your broker)
-Be careful during the last 15 minutes prior to and first 5 minutes after market close....I have seen 20tick discrepancies between 6E and M6E during these periods
-If you are going for smaller targets, don't pay attention to commissions...view them as the price of education(much cheaper education than blowing up an account)

London Calling
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Xav1029 for this post:
 
  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
Malaysia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Multichart DT
Broker/Data: MB Trading
Favorite Futures: Fx
 
torroray's Avatar
 
Posts: 273 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 52 given, 59 received


Xav1029 View Post
Here some points on the M6E, which I trade every day for similar reasons as you:
-The M6E has 1-2 tick spread about 90% of the time
-The depth is there, just not volume
-Chart the 6E, trade the M6E
-Use market orders, this again relates to the depth being there, but not the volume
-If you are scalping, commissions might eat you up(depending on your broker)
-Be careful during the last 15 minutes prior to and first 5 minutes after market close....I have seen 20tick discrepancies between 6E and M6E during these periods
-If you are going for smaller targets, don't pay attention to commissions...view them as the price of education(much cheaper education than blowing up an account)

Smaller targets? How small is small in relation to commission?

Reply With Quote
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: 6E, M6E, 6J
 
Xav1029's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,374 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 1,452 given, 3,354 received


torroray View Post
Smaller targets? How small is small in relation to commission?

Well not only commissions, but other factors:

Commission --> 1.5 - 2 ticks
Due to volume you have to use market orders + slippage--> 1-3 ticks each way (1 tick slippage, 1-2 ticks due to limit order limitations)

After leaving many limit orders sitting out there just to see them never filled, I realized I had to enter with market orders and be careful on limit order exits.

So with these factors I would estimate that each trade you are about 3-6 ticks in the hole depending on how you enter/exit. If you are shooting for targets less than 10 ticks you will watch your account slowly decline. Personally, I was ok with this. You learn ways to squeeze a little more out of trades, and you have to go into it knowing you aren't going to make a living trading that way. I just trade it because it simulates the real emotions that SIM can never do.

Now if you are shooting for 50+ ticks, these 4 ticks aren't felt as much. If you swing trade for 100+ ticks 1-2 times a week with 2-3 contracts, you can actually have a little extra coffee money each week That is where I am currently transitioning to

London Calling
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Xav1029 for this post:
 
  #6 (permalink)
Temet nosce.
Northern Indiana, USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: M6E, 6E
 
V i m's Avatar
 
Posts: 137 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 87 given, 66 received

Thank you for the info Xav. Would you still recommend your broker and platform for trading M6E? Any reason to consider other currency pairs in your opinion? And do you find a particular style of trading more compatible with M6E so far? Trend following, band trading, breakouts, etc... I am just curious of your view of that instrument's action, so exact trading style details aren't necessary. I haven't really come across many people trying to trade it so far.

Just for the sake of completeness, below I linked a couple other relevant futures.io (formerly BMT) threads. Is anyone else trading micro currencies of any form that they think would be a better fit? I believe Big Mike's position is with Spot Forex before the micro futures, or at least it used to be? If micro-lots in spot Forex did have a cheaper transaction cost over all, I wonder if it would it still be cheaper when you consider higher tax liability?

I suppose it could also be worth considering slightly longer term swing trading of equities since that might get me passed the PDT margin. But that is a bit outside of the thread subject.


System Built on 6E but Trading on M6E
Trading mini euro ( E7) or micro euro (M6E) currency futures ???

Reply With Quote
 
  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Melbourne/Australia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: MOSL. international broker
Favorite Futures: Futures, Stocks.
 
Posts: 40 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 28 given, 19 received


V i m View Post

- I am starting with a bias against Spot Forex because I just don't like the idea of it not being regulated, along with a less favorable tax structure. However, if its cheaper for me to learn on, even with potential spread "stealing" - then so be it. Also what concerns me is spending a lot of time learning Forex, knowing I may not want to stay there. I am too much of a rookie trader to know what knowledge I can transfer to another instrument at this point.

I have a similar idea to move in to regulated market, but the way it is going soon forex will be regulated i guess

With regards to knowledge transfer it is not a waste to learn Forex if you are a price action trader. on other hand if ur system is based on indicators and colourful signals then it could be a waste

Forex teaches you a lot. A heal lot to learn there
my 2 cents.


Last edited by Lawrencejude; December 6th, 2012 at 11:57 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Lawrencejude for this post:
 
  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
Malaysia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Multichart DT
Broker/Data: MB Trading
Favorite Futures: Fx
 
torroray's Avatar
 
Posts: 273 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 52 given, 59 received


Xav1029 View Post
Well not only commissions, but other factors:

Commission --> 1.5 - 2 ticks
Due to volume you have to use market orders + slippage--> 1-3 ticks each way (1 tick slippage, 1-2 ticks due to limit order limitations)

After leaving many limit orders sitting out there just to see them never filled, I realized I had to enter with market orders and be careful on limit order exits.

So with these factors I would estimate that each trade you are about 3-6 ticks in the hole depending on how you enter/exit. If you are shooting for targets less than 10 ticks you will watch your account slowly decline. Personally, I was ok with this. You learn ways to squeeze a little more out of trades, and you have to go into it knowing you aren't going to make a living trading that way. I just trade it because it simulates the real emotions that SIM can never do.

Now if you are shooting for 50+ ticks, these 4 ticks aren't felt as much. If you swing trade for 100+ ticks 1-2 times a week with 2-3 contracts, you can actually have a little extra coffee money each week That is where I am currently transitioning to

I see your sig also say you trade the 6E. So if you trade 6E for 3 to 5 ticks and there more volume, would you make money after you subtract trading cost?

Reply With Quote
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: 6E, M6E, 6J
 
Xav1029's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,374 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 1,452 given, 3,354 received


V i m View Post
Thank you for the info Xav. Would you still recommend your broker and platform for trading M6E? Any reason to consider other currency pairs in your opinion? And do you find a particular style of trading more compatible with M6E so far? Trend following, band trading, breakouts, etc... I am just curious of your view of that instrument's action, so exact trading style details aren't necessary. I haven't really come across many people trying to trade it so far.

Just for the sake of completeness, below I linked a couple other relevant futures.io (formerly BMT) threads. Is anyone else trading micro currencies of any form that they think would be a better fit? I believe Big Mike's position is with Spot Forex before the micro futures, or at least it used to be? If micro-lots in spot Forex did have a cheaper transaction cost over all, I wonder if it would it still be cheaper when you consider higher tax liability?

I suppose it could also be worth considering slightly longer term swing trading of equities since that might get me passed the PDT margin. But that is a bit outside of the thread subject.


System Built on 6E but Trading on M6E
Trading mini euro ( E7) or micro euro (M6E) currency futures ???


Well I originally started trading the M6E for 4 reasons:
1) I already had a futures account
2) I traded full size contracts after watching the market for a couple weeks, and lost 40% in a very short period of time and I did not want to completely blow up my account
3) I have no faith in an unregulated market
4) ALL my technical analysis involves volume and/or order flow


Charting on the M6E is pretty much useless on smaller timeframes. The spread will follow the 6E very closely, but many times no trades will happen at those prices. I have a regular day job, so I have been getting up at 2:45 AM for the past couple months to work on my daytrading methods. I have recently began to transition from short term trading to long term trading. This week I tried 2 swing trades. Jumped the first one for a 60 tick loss, but waited for confirmation on the second one and rode it for 116 ticks(and that was mismanaged ). I am not here to tell you what would work best for you, but this week was an eye opener for me. I am up more than a good week trading London 4 hrs a day, yet have only spent about 2 hrs total in front of a chart, and that is only because I am still getting used to it.

One thing to remember in that the M6E is about the same as a mini spot lot. I don't know what the spreads and/or commissions are for FX EUR/USD for mini lots. I just look at the M6E as training ground. I am fine paying an extra $1 per trade to have peace of mind and volume data, some people will argue with me against that, but it just MY opinion.

One thing some FX brokers do offer is Micro or Nano Lots. This might suite you better if the $1.25/tick is a little more than you want to pay for education. I like the $1.25/tick because it is big enough to where it stings a little when I screw up, but it won't blow up my account anytime soon.

London Calling
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Xav1029 for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: 6E, M6E, 6J
 
Xav1029's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,374 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 1,452 given, 3,354 received



torroray View Post
I see your sig also say you trade the 6E. So if you trade 6E for 3 to 5 ticks and there more volume, would you make money after you subtract trading cost?

I chart the 6E and trade the M6E. My sign also says I'm a beginner

My opinion on "hyper-scalping" 2-5 ticks on anything other than bonds and maybe the ES is that it would only statistically work if you have super wide stops and super deep pockets. Noise would take you out if you had tight stops and a bad run(which will happen) would take you out if you had wide stops but a small account. That just my opinion though, so please do not turn this into a I am a scalper and make money every day argument. If that works for you, I am genuinely happy for you because its nice to see people succeed.

London Calling
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Xav1029 for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Recommedation - Micro Futures vs Micro Forex

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading mini euro ( E7) or micro euro (M6E) currency futures ??? rw48gmx Currency Futures 115 November 14th, 2017 04:58 PM
Mini-gold vs. micro-gold vs. regular gold futures: any comments? anituchka Commodities Futures Trading 28 April 28th, 2017 11:47 PM
[Forex] ECN broker with micro account for MC ? enjoyaol MultiCharts 8 January 28th, 2013 09:47 PM
Micro account recommendations Rossidog Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 7 October 23rd, 2011 04:36 AM
micro-trends Monte Traders Hideout 6 July 7th, 2011 06:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:37 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.18 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.226.132.197