Why futures instead of equities/ETFs/spot forex? - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Why futures instead of equities/ETFs/spot forex?
Updated: Views / Replies:5,853 / 40
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Why futures instead of equities/ETFs/spot forex?

  #11 (permalink)
Knowledge Seeker
Dubai, UAE
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, TradeStation
Broker/Data: OX, TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Stocks & Basic Options
 
RedK's Avatar
 
Posts: 171 since May 2012
Thanks: 44 given, 138 received

simple"er"?

there's a perception of "simpler".. i get 1 tick = i get x$
no greeks, calendar/vertical/iron condros, ... no complex fundamentals & P/E and EPS... to worry about..
(disclaimer: i don't trade futures..)
RedK

Reply With Quote
 
  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Nashville, Tennessee
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja / Jigsaw / 9G
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: NQ, YM and ES
 
tderrick's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,589 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 4,260 given, 2,527 received


Luger View Post
Taxes: 60% long term gains / 40% short term gains no matter the holding period on broad based index futures. Less going out to the tax man is a nice boost when compounding returns. Also, no wash sales or other tax headaches like with equities.


Does this mean you PAY 60% or 40% in taxes??


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
Reply With Quote
 
  #13 (permalink)
Fiddler
Nashville, TN
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ ES
 
Posts: 468 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 323 given, 542 received



tderrick View Post
Does this mean you PAY 60% or 40% in taxes??

No, on broad based index futures your tax rate is on those products is a combination of the short term and long term capital gains rates. Section 1256 contracts are what the IRS calls them.

Example:
I am in the 25% bracket, I am profitable trading, and I am deciding what product to trade.

Tax rate on broad based index futures = (60% * 15%) + (40% * 25%) = 19%
Pay IRS $190 for every $1,000 made.

Tax rate regular short term capital gains (equities, options, etc) = 25%
Pay IRS $250 for every $1,000 made.

For those people in the higher brackets it is even more valuable:
In the 35% bracket, broad based index futures gains are taxed at only 23% instead of 35% for equities, etc.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Luger for this post:
 
  #14 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,351 given, 83,221 received

There are definitely tax advantages for futures, not just in terms of $ but also time and simplicity.

But those advantages only apply to the few traders that are actually profitable. So if you are not yet profitable or a new trader, I still think equities are where you should start.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Nashville, Tennessee
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja / Jigsaw / 9G
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: NQ, YM and ES
 
tderrick's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,589 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 4,260 given, 2,527 received


Luger View Post
No, on broad based index futures your tax rate is on those products is a combination of the short term and long term capital gains rates. Section 1256 contracts are what the IRS calls them.

Example:
I am in the 25% bracket, I am profitable trading, and I am deciding what product to trade.

Tax rate on broad based index futures = (60% * 15%) + (40% * 25%) = 19%
Pay IRS $190 for every $1,000 made.

Tax rate regular short term capital gains (equities, options, etc) = 25%
Pay IRS $250 for every $1,000 made.

For those people in the higher brackets it is even more valuable:
In the 35% bracket, broad based index futures gains are taxed at only 23% instead of 35% for equities, etc.


Oh, I like that!! I was getting nervous...

We need to get together for a coffee one morning

Thanks @Luger


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
Reply With Quote
 
  #16 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,351 given, 83,221 received

Added spot forex to the mix.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #17 (permalink)
Fiddler
Nashville, TN
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ ES
 
Posts: 468 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 323 given, 542 received


Big Mike View Post
There are definitely tax advantages for futures, not just in terms of $ but also time and simplicity.

But those advantages only apply to the few traders that are actually profitable. So if you are not yet profitable or a new trader, I still think equities are where you should start.

Mike

That was one reason that I mentioned "profitable" in my example. I agree that people should get their experience on equities when first getting involved with trading. No sense in getting killed by leverage before you even get started good.

Leverage is a double edged sword. Don't learning to swing a sword using a double edged sword, you will just cut yourself...

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Luger for this post:
 
  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
near Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: -
Favorite Futures: -
 
Nicolas11's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,070 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2,232 given, 1,729 received

Hi,

FOREX has no centralized volume, so is not necessarily a relevant instrument for those who have methods relying on volume, either on the short-term (tape, DOM) or on more longer-term (VSA, etc.).

Futures allow more margin. For the same amount of risk/gain, it allows having less capital on the broker's side, and consequently reduces the risk incurred in case of bankruptcy of the broker.

I have heard that dark pools and in-house clearing (broker matching orders) are more wide-spread on equities than futures, which has impact on the interpretation of the volume. But I am not very sure of this last point.

Nicolas


Last edited by Nicolas11; September 16th, 2012 at 08:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Nicolas11 for this post:
 
  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received

Why not spot forex? Experiences like this:

https://futures.io/forex-currency-trading/23126-help-explaining-dukascopy-failed-fills.html

These things happen all the time. When you deal with spot forex, you are dealing over the counter with a person who is unregulated and answers to no one except you and unmotivated in any way to have you succeed (as they are usually the couterparty to your trade).

I would rather trade the e-micros at the CME than deal with the snakes in the forex business, and this is probably the best alternative IMO.

Plus, at least then you have some depth of market and a tape with actual transactions, instead of a black box of price only in OTC forex, where the dealer can quote whatever the hell they want. I would wager to guess that 90% of forex traders have no clue about how their market actually works, and that is exactly how the dealers want to keep it.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
  #20 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, NY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, thinkorswim
Broker/Data: Amp-Rithmic/TT, IB
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, NQ
 
Posts: 569 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,797 given, 249 received



josh View Post
Why not spot forex? Experiences like this:

https://futures.io/forex-currency-trading/23126-help-explaining-dukascopy-failed-fills.html

These things happen all the time. When you deal with spot forex, you are dealing over the counter with a person who is unregulated and answers to no one except you and unmotivated in any way to have you succeed (as they are usually the couterparty to your trade).

I would rather trade the e-micros at the CME than deal with the snakes in the forex business, and this is probably the best alternative IMO.

Plus, at least then you have some depth of market and a tape with actual transactions, instead of a black box of price only in OTC forex, where the dealer can quote whatever the hell they want. I would wager to guess that 90% of forex traders have no clue about how their market actually works, and that is exactly how the dealers want to keep it.

And with the Minis/Micros, all the other benefits of futures previously mentioned, exchange safety, transparency, margin, leverage, taxes, etc still apply too. I've been thinking of looking into swing trading other commodities like gold/silver etc through the micros to get started trading them with less $ than the full contracts require. And I don't think slippage/commissions/liquidity would be an issue for swing trading.


Last edited by Futures Operator; September 18th, 2012 at 07:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Futures Operator for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Why futures instead of equities/ETFs/spot forex?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spot Forex Group - Come On In mokodo Currency Futures 3 July 11th, 2013 12:47 AM
Interactive Brokers for Spot Forex sasnak Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 15 July 10th, 2013 11:58 PM
ECN Spot Forex Broker tderrick Currency Futures 31 November 16th, 2012 11:19 AM
Best Historical Spot Forex Data for NT? ringo1 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 4 October 11th, 2011 10:35 PM
Forex Spot with Divergence Spanky Traders Hideout 7 December 28th, 2009 11:44 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:05 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.13 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.227.51.103