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Trading The Ross Hook
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Created: by Blz17 Attachments:45

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Trading The Ross Hook

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Zoethecus View Post
With all due respect, I emphatically disagree. There isn't a money management method on earth that will overcome a system that doesn't have a positive expectancy after costs.

I suppose I wasn't all too clear. I agree a garbage system is still garbage regardless of the money management scheme. How do you define "positive expectancy?" Many great systems edge is derived from a money management plan that creates the positive expectancy.

Blz

P.S. I'd suggest reading the book if you'd like to learn more about the approach.

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  #22 (permalink)
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Agree with Zoe,

Usualy wannabe traders that dont have an edge, their entry is based on a crystal ball/reading stars/moon location etc. and have no exit plan in place, will tell you that the most important part is the Money Managment.

Have a good entry, statisticly expected profit per the time frame you trade and you are OK.


Floor traders do not manage, they see the right reason to buy/sell, get in and get out with profit. Just do it many times a day and leave the Managment to the managers.






Zoethecus View Post
With all due respect, I emphatically disagree. There isn't a money management method on earth that will overcome a system that doesn't have a positive expectancy after costs.


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  #23 (permalink)
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ikew View Post
Agree with Zoe,

Usualy wannabe traders that dont have an edge, their entry is based on a crystal ball/reading stars/moon location etc. and have no exit plan in place, will tell you that the most important part is the Money Managment.

Have a good entry, statisticly expected profit per the time frame you trade and you are OK.


Floor traders do not manage, they see the right reason to buy/sell, get in and get out with profit. Just do it many times a day and leave the Managment to the managers.

You got me confused, so you don't think focusing on money management is important?

Blz

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  #24 (permalink)
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Blz,
"positive expectancy?"

If you trade 1 min chart, and 70% of the times price will move 15 ticks over a period of a few minutes after your entry, this is your expectancy.

On a longer time frame it may be a larger #. Its a pure statistical issue and nothing to do with managment.

You may find some studies on the subject in gaming theory and trading statistics.




Blz17 View Post
I suppose I wasn't all too clear. I agree a garbage system is still garbage regardless of the money management scheme. How do you define "positive expectancy?" Many great systems edge is derived from a money management plan that creates the positive expectancy.

Blz

P.S. I'd suggest reading the book if you'd like to learn more about the approach.


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  #25 (permalink)
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No value at all to day traders.



Blz17 View Post
You got me confused, so you don't think focusing on money management is important?

Blz


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  #26 (permalink)
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ikew View Post
No value at all to day traders.

Wow

Blz

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  #27 (permalink)
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Just focus on an entry that gives you 60-70% of the time moves to your direction, take as profit the "expected profit", get out and wait for the next setup.

The key is the good SETUP" that deliver the expected profit for your time frame.



Blz17 View Post
Wow

Blz


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  #28 (permalink)
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Blz,

Think about it in this way:

How long you want to be expose to the market?
Do you want to reduce the exposure and have reasonable profit per trade that pay for the risk you take?

So lets say you trade of a 5 range chart TF. If you open the chart you can see that most moves/waves will generate around 10-12 ticks. This becom the expected profit.

Now see how long /bars did the move usuasly takes. Is it 4-8 bars? so this become the time that you expect to make your profit.

Now, find yourself a setup/trigger to identify the start of those moves, set your profit target to a few ticks less and start trading. If you see that there are 5-8 such moves a day, again, this is how many trades you can expect to trade a day.

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  #29 (permalink)
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very good ike and zoe, totally agree.

expectancy is key for me as well. money management is just common sense (something like not trading 10 es contracts with a $5,000 account), but no real value for day trading. good explanation about expectancy you can find in dr. van k. tharpís book: trade your way to financial freedom.

one thing I can't agree is about the floor traders. I would go as far as saying most of them are losing money. the big boys are sitting in front of computers in offices now. and the floor traders and the pit itself are nothing more than a tourist attraction.

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  #30 (permalink)
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ikew View Post
Blz,

Think about it in this way:

How long you want to be expose to the market?
Do you want to reduce the exposure and have reasonable profit per trade that pay for the risk you take?

So lets say you trade of a 5 range chart TF. If you open the chart you can see that most moves/waves will generate around 10-12 ticks. This becom the expected profit.

Now see how long /bars did the move usuasly takes. Is it 4-8 bars? so this become the time that you expect to make your profit.

Now, find yourself a setup/trigger to identify the start of those moves, set your profit target to a few ticks less and start trading. If you see that there are 5-8 such moves a day, again, this is how many trades you can expect to trade a day.

Sheesh I never realized it was as simple as creating a strategy that wins 70% of the time and that money management wasn't important at all. I've been going about this all wrong.

You must be making bundles of cash ikew. Hope you share your strategy with the group.

Blz

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