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Forex or CME Futures
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Created: by wldman Attachments:4

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Forex or CME Futures

  #11 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
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syxforex View Post
BigMike, are you still trading crude intraday? I notice you have changed your favourite instruments.

Nope, not for over a year.

Mike

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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
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Favorite Futures: duh hammer!
 
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Posts: 2,069 since Aug 2011
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Agree totally...

on brand new folks starting where they can do so with very little capital participation. IMO the differences in product or market place are becoming diminished. Forex brokers even if they are registered do not have the same segregation requirements or regulation. "Overnight" or significant deposit, "should" be safer with a futures account. I do have a forex acct with MB Trading and while I never ramp up significant size there, slippage has never been an issue. That said I don't usually have a risk position around an economic release capable of killing me. One thing I do enjoy is their EXN. I can see customer orders and easily "type" their behavior. I can not do that on the futures side and the futures participants seem to be more crafty.

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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Perdido Beach, AL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: graph paper
Favorite Futures: Guitar
 
websouth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,150 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 1,094 given, 1,299 received


I'll help if I can. I can't really compare as I have never traded futures. I day traded stocks with MBtrading back in 2001ish. I just found a binder buried in the office where I must have killed a printer by printing off every page of stockcharts.com chart school in 2001. It's all marked up with notes, etc. - haha. wow. Anyhow I got a forex account with MBT as soon as they offered it for retail. I still have that account as well as a few others. MBtrading offers futures as well as forex now so as mentioned previously the lines are starting to blur a bit. Never had any problems with funding or withdrawals from them. I have never done any other products not because of account size but mainly just comfort with the product. I have not had real problems with slippage (just around news) however as I said I don't have anything to compare against. Tax implications are similar. Forex can opt out of section 988 and go with 1256 same as futures. So 23% ish. I'm not a tax pro but did sleep in a holiday inn express once. Futures brokers give you a 1099 whereas forex brokers do not. Commissions and spread has been under constant pressure to improve and the push has been in forex to go from a ECN model to DMA. Explained better here then I could.
DMA (Direct Market Access) | DMA Forex brokers

I think futures has a fixed leverage rate? (margin requirement). Forex can be from 1:1 - 1:500 (insane)
This just affects your margin requirement it's not the size you should trade at. I think this is where forex gets the bad rap... But this allows a lot of beginners to start in the forex market as Mike and you said. Then the huge risk allowed causes lots of blown accounts.
If you wanted to adjust this lower for whatever reason - Not sure if MB will let you adjust this with a phone call as there is nowhere in the software and I have never asked. They are 1:100 out of the gate on main forex and 1:50 on exotics. Oanda you can adjust online. Others you can do with phone call.

I traded forex off of tick charts and chased the best data feeds/ lowest commissions around for awhile but I just don't look at it on that level anymore. There are too many technological hurdles in the way for doing high frequency scalping. IMHO for retailers. However - If that is what you want probably FXDD and their Currenex DMA based platform is what you would want. The cyrox guys have a pool which gets pretty good rates... @ cyrox.com + there are other scenarios out there which you can negotiate.

Cyrox pool specs to give you an idea -

Full DMA professional platform:
- Minimum account size is $100000
- 1:100 Leverage up to 100K equity
- Competitive commissions at $16 per million
- Extremely competitive spreads and clean pricing
- Minimum trade size is 10,000 (.01m)
- Access the deepest pools of liquidity
- Access to more than 9 major banks that make 90% of the spot forex liquidity
- Execute trades with one click, allowing quick entry/exit during fast moving markets
- More advanced DMA trading platforms and API
- Quickest route to market with little latency
- Lower transaction costs
- Greater control over your own trading


kinda general but not sure what you are after. @ wildman - Maybe I passed your entrance exam...

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: duh hammer!
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,069 since Aug 2011
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I did not mean...

to sound like I had an entrance exam...so I apologize for that. When I think about it, you might be correct. That concerns me a bit.

My experience at MB has been very good. I don't trade much size with them because the forex brokers have non segregated accounts...but I guess there is evidence these days that if any firm disappears, your account might disappear with them.

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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston,Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: TF
 
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With FX ... how do you know if you are getting the correct market price ?

New York Sues BNY Mellon for $2B+ in ForEx Case

State Street Is Sued By Arkansas Fund - WSJ.com

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #16 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
British Columbia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJA
Broker/Data: ZEN
Favorite Futures: Crude
 
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Get an EBS or Reuters FX machine. EBS is the largest interbank ECN in the world, where the big boys play. Volume from that platform actually could mean something. Minimum lot size is 1MM, 10 times the minimum trade size in the CME futures. Ya, I've got to get one...

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  #17 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
With FX ... how do you know if you are getting the correct market price ?

I always have my futures charts up, so it is easy to see the current "regulated" price. There will always be a slight offset between the Forex spot price and the Futures price, but they should move in lockstep.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Perdido Beach, AL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: graph paper
Favorite Futures: Guitar
 
websouth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,150 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 1,094 given, 1,299 received


ThatManFromTexas View Post
With FX ... how do you know if you are getting the correct market price ?

That's a political question. Maybe I am more of a free market guy than you...
hmm "correct market price" a lot of info contained in those 3 words.
did you like your fill. If you did stay where you are.
did you not. complain. try to fix. move your account.
I am happy with 3rd party analysis and opinions so I can make a decision. 3rd party regulations I do not like. Pretty soon you will be told what, when, where and how much you can trade for your own "protection"... oh wait you already are.

Section 742a of the Dodd-Frank act which “prohibits any person [which again includes companies]from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined basis.”

people tend to like regulation when it goes in their favor and they forget the other side of the coin.
Forex is the wild wild west
An American Experiment in Anarcho- Capitalism: The Not So Wild, Wild West by Terry Anderson and P.J. Hill

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
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  #19 (permalink)
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Houston,Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
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websouth View Post
That's a political question. Maybe I am more of a free market guy than you...
hmm "correct market price" a lot of info contained in those 3 words.
did you like your fill. If you did stay where you are.
did you not. complain. try to fix. move your account.
I am happy with 3rd party analysis and opinions so I can make a decision. 3rd party regulations I do not like. Pretty soon you will be told what, when, where and how much you can trade for your own "protection"... oh wait you already are.

Section 742a of the Dodd-Frank act which “prohibits any person [which again includes companies]from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined basis.”

people tend to like regulation when it goes in their favor and they forget the other side of the coin.
Forex is the wild wild west
An American Experiment in Anarcho- Capitalism: The Not So Wild, Wild West by Terry Anderson and P.J. Hill

@websouth

The point ... you missed it....

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I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #20 (permalink)
Elite Member
Perdido Beach, AL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: graph paper
Favorite Futures: Guitar
 
websouth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,150 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 1,094 given, 1,299 received


TMFT ok - please explain...
and speak slowly. I think your point is that I should watch more volleyball? Obviously true from the picture.

my point was that regulation is stated as a main and important difference between forex and futures and I think it is immaterial. People will disagree with or without regulation. Government is generally the grit in the machine.

+++++++++

not really interested in role of forex fanboy here no matter how it started out. I was most interested in hearing more from wldman as he is a smart fella and has been around the block. That's why I poked the thread. @ wldman I agreed with how you defined the conversation filter I was just busting your chops re entrance exam.

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
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