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Outage with a live position on Ninja (yikes) what to do?
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Outage with a live position on Ninja (yikes) what to do?

  #1 (permalink)
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Outage with a live position on Ninja (yikes) what to do?

After reading a few posts on the Forum about data feeds going down, internet connection issues, etc. I wanted to explore this very important issue:

"...in ninjatrader stops and targets sit on your machine if you use an ATM ... if your connection goes down while you have a trade open ... you no longer have any stops targets"

Are there any suggested solutions/stop gaps to deal with this eventuality to avoid getting in trouble and being in a "naked" position.

Ninja Trader Customer Service says the following - "If you were to loose connectivity you would need to contact your broker by phone to manually manage the position until connectivity can be restored."

Are there any other options? The time it takes to get a hold of a broker could be very costly.

How do other folks handle this issue?

Thanks!

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
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TrendTraderBH View Post
After reading a few posts on the Forum about data feeds going down, internet connection issues, etc. I wanted to explore this very important issue:

"...in ninjatrader stops and targets sit on your machine if you use an ATM ... if your connection goes down while you have a trade open ... you no longer have any stops targets"

Are there any suggested solutions/stop gaps to deal with this eventuality to avoid getting in trouble and being in a "naked" position.

Ninja Trader Customer Service says the following - "If you were to loose connectivity you would need to contact your broker by phone to manually manage the position until connectivity can be restored."

Are there any other options? The time it takes to get a hold of a broker could be very costly.

How do other folks handle this issue?

Thanks!

1. Ninja (and other retail platforms) stores pending and working orders locally (ie on your machine). Power out = trouble!

2. Some platforms and/or brokers store pending and/or working orders either at exchange (if exchange supports them).

3. Or, they are stored on the broker/clearing firm's server.

To me #3 is ideal, it takes away that risk. For example - I have Ninja execution, Multichart execution and PFG BD8 execution. I prefer BD8 because it stores the working order (once submitted) on PFG servers. I can walk away with no problem. I believe CQG, TT XTrader as well as PhotonTrader hold working orders in the same way (either at exchange or on their own servers). Rithmic RTrader does too.

Or you can run Ninja on a VPS

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  #4 (permalink)
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So using Ninja one is basically S.O.L.? Interesting to hear more from anyone.....

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  #5 (permalink)
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This is an important issue.

(1) First you need to understand, where your order resides. If you have a target and a stop order, they may either be sitting on your machine (simulated by NinjaTrader), sitting with your broker (simulated by your broker) or sitting on the exchange.

My broker natively supports OCO orders, and I therefore do not have orders, which are locally held.

Here is a link with an information, which brokers support OCO orders.

Where do your orders reside? - NinjaTrader Support Forum

(2) In case that I lose connectivity, I have a backup internet connection (mobile) to replace my fixed line. In case of a PC failure, I have a notebook to connect to my broker. The notebook also works during a power failure.

(3) If nothing works, I have the phone number of the trade desk of the broker ready to flatten everything if need.

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  #6 (permalink)
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Deucalion View Post
1. Ninja (and other retail platforms) stores pending and working orders locally (ie on your machine). Power out = trouble!

This is simply false, please see link in my post above.

Moreover, for automated strategies, you can select via NinjaScript, whether you wish to hold orders locally or whether you want to send them to your broker.

Whether the broker sends orders to the exchange mostly depends on whether the order type is supported by the exchange. If the exchange does not support the order type, it is typically simulated by the broker.

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Fat Tails View Post
This is an important issue.

(1) First you need to understand, where your order resides. If you have a target and a stop order, they may either be sitting on your machine (simulated by NinjaTrader), sitting with your broker (simulated by your broker) or sitting on the exchange.

My broker natively supports OCO orders, and I therefore do not have orders, which are locally held.

Here is a link with an information, which brokers support OCO orders.

Where do your orders reside? - NinjaTrader Support Forum

(2) In case that I lose connectivity, I have a backup internet connection (mobile) to replace my fixed line. In case of a PC failure, I have a notebook to connect to my broker. The notebook also works during a power failure.

(3) If nothing works, I have the phone number of the trade desk of the broker ready to flatten everything if need.

Thanks, I should have qualified that statement with what you said in the first line (BD8, for example stores working orders and OCO functionality on PFG servers).

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  #8 (permalink)
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Thanks Fat Tail. I will be doing some serious investigation on this topic. My current broker is AMP.

Ninja's answer didn't sit well with me.

From your link:

CQG
Orders in a state "Accepted" or "Working" are at the exchange. If the exchange does not support a specific order type, the order will be active on the CQG servers.
OCO (One Cancels Other) functionality is simulated on your local PC.

Does that mean that ATM stops and targets are "Accepted"?

I plan to find out and report back if I find something.

So far, I've been told S.O.L. and call your broker.....

to be continued.

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  #9 (permalink)
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TrendTraderBH View Post
Thanks Fat Tail. I will be doing some serious investigation on this topic. My current broker is AMP.

Ninja's answer didn't sit well with me.

From your link:

CQG
Orders in a state "Accepted" or "Working" are at the exchange. If the exchange does not support a specific order type, the order will be active on the CQG servers.
OCO (One Cancels Other) functionality is simulated on your local PC.

Does that mean that ATM stops and targets are "Accepted"?

I plan to find out and report back if I find something.

So far, I've been told S.O.L. and call your broker.....

to be continued.


This is my understanding:

If you enter a bracket order (OCO) with NinjaTrader, both orders are transmitted to CQG and will be sitting either on the server of CQG or on the exchange.

If you have a power outage or your PC crashes, at some time afterwards either the profit target or the stop loss will be hit. In that case the other order will not be cancelled - as OCO is not supported by CQG or the API - and you may find yourself with a naked long or short position in case that the second order is also triggered.

The problem here is that the profit and stop order may both be executed, as the OCO - one cancels the other - feature is assured by NinjaTrader. If you are not sleeping but realize that your PC is down or offline, you would have time enough to close out your position or the remaining order via telephone, before entering that naked position.

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  #10 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
(2) In case that I lose connectivity, I have a backup internet connection (mobile) to replace my fixed line. In case of a PC failure, I have a notebook to connect to my broker. The notebook also works during a power failure.

(3) If nothing works, I have the phone number of the trade desk of the broker ready to flatten everything if need.

1. Call the Trade Desk at the Broker. Find out what your position is. Have them fix it.

2. Try to reconnect NinjaTrader

A good trader foresees potential problems before they happen, establishes a plan to deal with all contingencies, and when the problem does arise ... moves with iron fisted control to implement the plan .

However ... it is hard to remember that your primary objective was to drain the swamp when you are up to your ass in alligators...

When NT loses connection and tries to re-connect you either wait or it to time out or you reboot your machine, fire everything back up and try to reconnect. That sounds simple until you are sweating bullets fumbling desperately to re-connect while listening to the sound of money being sucked out of your account in what seems like an eternity.

I have two computers(one is a lap top) both loaded with NT. DSL and Cable connected to a Dual Broad Band router with instant roll over and load balancing capability, Two Battery Back Up towers and the broker on speed dial on the land line and the cell phone.

There have still been times when I've had to call the broker.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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