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Outage with a live position on Ninja (yikes) what to do?
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Outage with a live position on Ninja (yikes) what to do?

  #21 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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TrendTraderBH View Post
Are there any other options? The time it takes to get a hold of a broker could be very costly.

How do other folks handle this issue?

Thanks!

This is why a quality broker is really much more important than a broker that saves you $20 a month on round turns.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
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4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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  #22 (permalink)
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mattz View Post
Simple for Rithmic Users of NinjaTrader: You Trade as usual on NinjaTrader.
when it comes to OCO you place it on RTrader and in that case it will reside on the Rithmic servers.
your computer goes down, your net drops, BUT your OCO will stay.

Not so simple - "trade as usual on NinjaTrader".... well, actually you don't trade at all on NinjaTrader with that solution. NinjaTrader becomes a charting package only, and all trades would have to be entered via RTrader.

If RTrader supports native OCO, then why doesn't NinjaTrader. That is the real question.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
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  #23 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
Here is an official response.

All orders (including OCO orders) submitted by NinjaTrader are sent to the broker/exchange with the exception of our optional feature, the NinjaTrader simulated stop order for which you can find information at the link below.

Simulated Stop Orders

A user has to purposely select this simulated stop order feature otherwise, all orders (including OCO orders) are sent through to the broker/exchange.

OCO functionality is simulated by NinjaTrader in the event that the broker/technology does not support OCO itself.

Ray,

I am confused. Looking at your document:

Where do your orders reside? - NinjaTrader Support Forum

Only TDA and IB are native OCO. So let's talk about Zen Fire or Rithmic, CQG, and TT since that accounts for 99% of people on the forum.

When using Zen Fire, Rithmic, CQG or TT - and you have a stop and target defined in your ATM, are those two OCO native exchange orders?

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
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4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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  #24 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Big Mike View Post
Actually it can be worse than that. If you had orders sitting at the exchange for your Target and Stop, then unless you are using IB then I think for everyone else (?) they are not native OCO, which means not Exchange side OCO.

This means that while you are off-line, if the market runs to your stop or target, that order will be filled and you will be flat. Until the market moves to the other side of your position (your stop or target), which will initiate a new naked position without any stop or target.

Mike

What is an Exchange Side OCO? Isn't an OCO simply not accepted on the exchanges because it is a contingent order and then it is the liability of the exchanges to cancel the orders(if one is filled), when in fact they don't want to assume such liability?
Some markets are so fast that they can trigger both.

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  #25 (permalink)
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Going back to post #1

Native exchange OCO is a nice feature, but it is by no means a disaster preparedness plan.

Things to explore:
1. How fast is your broker able to get you flat in the event that the broker themselves are the ones experiencing the emergency?

2. What alternatives do you have to cancel your own orders in the event your PC crashes, your power goes out, or your internet goes out? These might include a laptop with a 4G connection, but take note -- even though I have about seven UPS's in my house (which means everything keeps running during a power outage), my local Time Warner crap cable company can't afford a UPS. So when power goes out, internet goes out - out of my control. There might be similar problems for you.

3. Portal software, like web customer portals to close your own positions that are more automated and faster than calling a broker who can't answer the phone because everyone else is calling too.

4. You might also consider having accounts with more than one broker, so that if a MF Global scenario happens again you will be able to hedge. Some of those guys were forced to maintain open positions for weeks or longer because they were not prepared to hedge with another broker.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
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  #26 (permalink)
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mattz View Post
What is an Exchange Side OCO? Isn't an OCO simply not accepted on the exchanges because it is a contingent order and then it is the liability of the exchanges to cancel the orders, when in fact they don't want to assume such liability?
Some markets are so fast that they can trigger both.

I just mean a non-simulated client side OCO. The platform may call it OCO, but it is simulated for everything other than IB and TDA based on my understanding.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #27 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Big Mike View Post
I just mean a non-simulated client side OCO. The platform may call it OCO, but it is simulated for everything other than IB and TDA based on my understanding.

Mike

Maybe I am wrong, but an OCO is an OCO regardless of where it resides, so essentially they are all "simulated" if the exchange does not list them. this is my understanding...but again, I could be wrong.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #28 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.traderwerks.com 
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This is from my understanding on how Ninja/Zen handles OCO. I don't know about Rithmic, CQG

The OCO is about the cancel and where it resides. Here is an example

Say I want to go long the TF @795.0 , with a 20 tick profit and 5 tick stop loss, and the market is at 800.0

The first order is a limit order @795.0 (Order #1 ). This goes to the exchange. When you are filled,
Ninja sends two more orders. SELL LIMIT 797.0 (#2) and BUY STOP @794.5 (#3) You now have two
orders at the exchange.

Now the market rallies and your order #2 ( sell limit ) gets hit @797.0. There is only order #3 left in the market ( naked ).

On Ninja/Zen, your PC will send the cancel order for #3, with IB, once the order is hit, IB would cancel the remaining order even if your PC was not on at the time.

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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  #29 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Futures Experience: Advanced
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traderwerks View Post
This is from my understanding on how Ninja/Zen handles OCO. I don't know about Rithmic, CQG

The OCO is about the cancel and where it resides. Here is an example

Say I want to go long the TF @795.0 , with a 20 tick profit and 5 tick stop loss, and the market is at 800.0

The first order is a limit order @795.0 (Order #1 ). This goes to the exchange. When you are filled,
Ninja sends two more orders. SELL LIMIT 797.0 (#2) and BUY STOP @794.5 (#3) You now have two
orders at the exchange.

Now the market rallies and your order #2 ( sell limit ) gets hit @797.0. There is only order #3 left in the market ( naked ).

On Ninja/Zen, your PC will send the cancel order for #3, with IB, once the order is hit, IB would cancel the remaining order even if your PC was not on at the time.

Now that would make sense. That is the diff between PC and server side solution.
now what would happen if the stop gets hit first, the PC/server cancels the target?

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #30 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.traderwerks.com 
Taipei Taiwan
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Favorite Futures: TW
 
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mattz View Post
Now that would make sense. That is the diff between PC and server side solution.
now what would happen if the stop gets hit first, the PC/server cancels the target?

Yes, your PC/Server cancels the other side.

TW

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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