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Outage with a live position on Ninja (yikes) what to do?
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Outage with a live position on Ninja (yikes) what to do?

  #11 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
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Simple for Rithmic Users of NinjaTrader: You Trade as usual on NinjaTrader.
when it comes to OCO you place it on RTrader and in that case it will reside on the Rithmic servers.
your computer goes down, your net drops, BUT your OCO will stay.
Of course that Rithmic servers could go down too, but their stability isn 999% higher than any home PC.
RTrader is Free, and it will show your Net/Net positions you trade on NinjaTrader in a clearer way.
I recommend using it with any platform that utilizes Rithmic.

I know this must be the 10Th time I have mentioned here about Rtrader, but I see that these OCO issue is coming again and again with my customers as well. The net simply drops, when it does...
Alternatively, you can use a hosted solution which as the very least gives you an environment that is not cluttured with all these indicators that simply slow down and crash your comp.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston,Tx
 
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TrendTraderBH View Post
After reading a few posts on the Forum about data feeds going down, internet connection issues, etc. I wanted to explore this very important issue:

"...in ninjatrader stops and targets sit on your machine if you use an ATM ... if your connection goes down while you have a trade open ... you no longer have any stops targets"

Are there any suggested solutions/stop gaps to deal with this eventuality to avoid getting in trouble and being in a "naked" position.

Ninja Trader Customer Service says the following - "If you were to loose connectivity you would need to contact your broker by phone to manually manage the position until connectivity can be restored."

Are there any other options? The time it takes to get a hold of a broker could be very costly.

How do other folks handle this issue?

Thanks!


mattz View Post
Simple for Rithmic Users of NinjaTrader: You Trade as usual on NinjaTrader.
when it comes to OCO you place it on RTrader and in that case it will reside on the Rithmic servers.
your computer goes down, your net drops, BUT your OCO will stay.
Of course that Rithmic servers could go down too, but their stability isn 999% higher than any home PC.
RTrader is Free, and it will show your Net/Net positions you trade on NinjaTrader in a clearer way.
I recommend using it with any platform that utilizes Rithmic.

I know this must be the 10Th time I have mentioned here about Rtrader, but I see that these OCO issue is coming again and again with my customers as well. The net simply drops, when it does...
Alternatively, you can use a hosted solution which as the very least gives you an environment that is not cluttured with all these indicators that simply slow down and crash your comp.


@TrendTraderBH , @mattz has a great reputation for knowing his stuff ... but it's your money ...

When in doubt give your broker a Shout ...

BTW, mattz also has a great reputation for answering the phone...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago Illinois USA
 
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Why is there...


so much debate on this.

It is good to know where your orders reside. When you understand how that works you can respond with a telephone call.

When there is an issue just call the trading desk. You can request a manual fill notification in the event you have a hanging innie at which time you can close the trade or give your stop to the desk. If your targets or stops are hanging when the screen goes black, just call the desk and leave your orders there..."these cancel those " if you have to. Most desks will work with their customers even in the oddest of situations. If you are at a broker where you are certain they are working against your orders on the desk, go to a different broker.

To test how this might unfold call the desk when everything is fine and tell them there is an outage on your end...ask what your options are and make your crisis mgmt plan based on that.

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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Denver, CO
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Here is an official response.

All orders (including OCO orders) submitted by NinjaTrader are sent to the broker/exchange with the exception of our optional feature, the NinjaTrader simulated stop order for which you can find information at the link below.

Simulated Stop Orders

A user has to purposely select this simulated stop order feature otherwise, all orders (including OCO orders) are sent through to the broker/exchange.

OCO functionality is simulated by NinjaTrader in the event that the broker/technology does not support OCO itself.

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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Denver, CO
 
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TrendTraderBH View Post
Thanks Fat Tail. I will be doing some serious investigation on this topic. My current broker is AMP.

Ninja's answer didn't sit well with me.

From your link:

CQG
Orders in a state "Accepted" or "Working" are at the exchange. If the exchange does not support a specific order type, the order will be active on the CQG servers.
OCO (One Cancels Other) functionality is simulated on your local PC.

Does that mean that ATM stops and targets are "Accepted"?

I plan to find out and report back if I find something.

So far, I've been told S.O.L. and call your broker.....

to be continued.

All orders for CQG are sent to the exchange. The reason we specify the order state is that this makes it clear to the user that if the order is in "PendingSubmit" state it has been sent to CQG but NinjaTrader has not yet received confirmation that CQG or the exchange has received it. OCO link is simulated locally on your PC. We are working with CQG to have OCO resting on CQG servers. We expect this to be out later this year.


Last edited by NinjaTrader; April 26th, 2012 at 11:11 PM.
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  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Denver, CO
 
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mattz View Post
Simple for Rithmic Users of NinjaTrader: You Trade as usual on NinjaTrader.
when it comes to OCO you place it on RTrader and in that case it will reside on the Rithmic servers.
your computer goes down, your net drops, BUT your OCO will stay.
Of course that Rithmic servers could go down too, but their stability isn 999% higher than any home PC.
RTrader is Free, and it will show your Net/Net positions you trade on NinjaTrader in a clearer way.
I recommend using it with any platform that utilizes Rithmic.

I know this must be the 10Th time I have mentioned here about Rtrader, but I see that these OCO issue is coming again and again with my customers as well. The net simply drops, when it does...
Alternatively, you can use a hosted solution which as the very least gives you an environment that is not cluttured with all these indicators that simply slow down and crash your comp.

Matt,

I would debate that Rithmic servers are 999% more stable than a PC. We have many customers including members in this forum that run NinjaTrader with locally simulated OCO on home PC's and VPS and have very high up time.

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  #17 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
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Posts: 2,059 since Sep 2010
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@TrendTraderBH , @mattz has a great reputation for knowing his stuff ... but it's your money ...

When in doubt give your broker a Shout ...

BTW, mattz also has a great reputation for answering the phone...

@ThatManFromTexas
Thank you! I REALLY appreciate your kind words.
When you make your daily bread from people taking risk with their hard earned $$ what else is for a broker to do but help when needed?

Now...

The sad part that today brokers have becoming nothing but sales people of software.
All claim their software is the best on the planet when in reality they don't understand even simplest of functions.
I have been also in the school of "how many have you sold today?" before Optimus, and I swore that this is not how
I want to continue. In my brokerage, If my broker cant support a platform , then he can not solicit business for it, period!

It might seem that I "push" rithmic because of sales efforts, but in reality Rithmic allows me to see what the person
trades, his net/net and assist him in a timely fashion. Rithmic staff helps me as well tremendously.
As a broker I am also a client to software vendors, data feeds, net solutions, etc I know that I will NEVER give my money to someone who does not deserve it. I want to feel that I a customer and not just a quota to be filled. It would be quite hypocritical if I did not apply the same philosphy when I am on the other side, namely when I want too earn business.

Matt

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.

Last edited by mattz; April 26th, 2012 at 11:25 PM.
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  #18 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
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Posts: 2,059 since Sep 2010
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NinjaTrader View Post
Matt,

I would debate that Rithmic servers are 999% more stable than a PC. We have many customers including members in this forum that run NinjaTrader with locally simulated OCO on home PC's and VPS and have very high up time.

If you read my thread, I did mention in the end a VPS is recommend over a PC.
Secondly, OCO orders on a Rithmic server would have a better chance being held than a local PC.
Rithmic has Prop shops with millions of $ that rely on their servers, so I do trust their infrastructure.

I did not tell anyone to switch to Rtrader, as it does not have all the functunalities that NinjaTrader has.
You know that we @ Optimus always supported your software and will always do because we DO like it a lot.
All I am saying is to deploy another side of risk management.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #19 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
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Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
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Posts: 2,059 since Sep 2010
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NinjaTrader View Post
We are working with CQG to have OCO resting on CQG servers. We expect this to be out later this year.

I hope you can do that for our customers in the future as well.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #20 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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Big Mike's Avatar
 
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TrendTraderBH View Post
After reading a few posts on the Forum about data feeds going down, internet connection issues, etc. I wanted to explore this very important issue:

"...in ninjatrader stops and targets sit on your machine if you use an ATM ... if your connection goes down while you have a trade open ... you no longer have any stops targets"

Actually it can be worse than that. If you had orders sitting at the exchange for your Target and Stop, then unless you are using IB then I think for everyone else (?) they are not native OCO, which means not Exchange side OCO.

This means that while you are off-line, if the market runs to your stop or target, that order will be filled and you will be flat. Until the market moves to the other side of your position (your stop or target), which will initiate a new naked position without any stop or target.

Mike

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