NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Remember the non HFT days?


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one lookOutBelow with 3 posts (2 thanks)
    2. looks_two Bookworm with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Jigsaw Trading with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 liquidcci with 1 posts (1 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Private Banker with 7 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 4 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Beljevina with 1 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 lookOutBelow with 0.7 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 7,049 views
    2. thumb_up 18 thanks given
    3. group 5 followers
    1. forum 13 posts
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Remember the non HFT days?

  #1 (permalink)
 
liquidcci's Avatar
 liquidcci 
Austin, TX
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader, r-trader
Trading: NQ, CL
Posts: 866 since Jun 2011
Thanks Given: 610
Thanks Received: 1,091

This will make you think. As much as I dislike HFT create wild swings and flash crashes i don't want to go back to this. Picture is worth a thousand words. See link below


Remember the non [AUTOLINK]HFT[/AUTOLINK] days? |

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
Increase in trading performance by 75%
The Elite Circle
Trade idea based off three indicators.
Traders Hideout
How to apply profiles
Traders Hideout
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
31 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
28 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
20 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
17 thanks
  #3 (permalink)
 
kronie's Avatar
 kronie 
NYC + NY / USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
Trading: EMD, 6J, ZB
Posts: 796 since Oct 2009



liquidcci View Post
This will make you think. As much as I dislike HFT create wild swings and flash crashes i don't want to go back to this. Picture is worth a thousand words. See link below


Remember the non [AUTOLINK]HFT[/AUTOLINK] days? |

can't say that I do remember, however, I did notice this highly speculative article, with British spelling of the words too

Charles Biderman: The Problem with Rigged Markets - Blogs at Chris Martenson

why is it so many peoples, and countries want the USD $$$ to no longer function as the only reserve currency?

The British lost their Pound, as the other reserve currency,
The West Germans lost their DuecheMark as the other reserve currency,

We, in the US still pay for world security (with our overly inflated defense budget and high taxation upon all citizens for this).

We, in the US make countries like Costa Rica, which has NO standing army, and they proudly make that a point of international discussion, and other countries too. This frees up so many hundreds of millions of citizens in their respective countries, that are not pressed into mandatory or compulsory (ala South Korea, Malaysia, and so many other countries do) military service.

The question of what those citizens and countries do with their "of age" men / women, since they're not used similarly, namely for defense, like our country does, and others; what do they do?

The choice to supplant the US as the reserve currency doesn't seem likely, because the role covers more things politically, such as global influence (read into that, the ability to project one's power (read into that: military) across such a wide range of territories). This change of station, doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

US Treasuries, US Dollar denominated assets, real estate holdings and such, still receive the dubious notion, as described so often, when other currencies shake, rattle and roll, as "flight to safety" and other expressions similar to that.

When the British, pulled their budgets and balance sheets back into alignment, they withdrew from their projection of military power globally, and their influence, and the importance of holding their currency rolled back on their shores too.

There's no direct linkage between military projection of power and currency status (as either reserve or the denomination of choice), but there sure seems to be something tying the two topics together. On that same road and path are the Russians, and the Chinese, who are following the example of many years ago, what the US did.

Perhaps the RMB will continue to rise, what with their financial controls being loosened, for that reason.

Perhaps, you'll be trading the E-mini RMB just like we frequently discuss and trade the Euro.


Sooner than we think

Perhaps....

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)
 
Beljevina's Avatar
 Beljevina 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, SierraCharts
Broker: Amp/CQG, IB
Trading: CL, GC, 6E, ES, RTY, EURUSD, GBPJPY, AUDUSD
Posts: 352 since Sep 2010

... finding the best thread to post this.

Nothing like an uber-geek to defend why HFT is wonderful for all of us. What BS. Yeah, get me a HFT money printing machine & I'll get a lobbyist out to the unsuspecting and ill-(brain) equipped public too. Liquidity, my foot.

The State of High-Frequency Trading - CNBC


Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)
 
Bookworm's Avatar
 Bookworm 
Long Island, NY
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
Broker: TD Ameritrade
Trading: Equities, index options and futures/futures options
Posts: 190 since Apr 2010
Thanks Given: 66
Thanks Received: 198

Before the computers, everyone complained about being ripped off by the locals. Now that the pit has been replaced by computers, everyone complains about being ripped off by the bots. I sense a theme here.

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,442 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,215
Thanks Received: 101,602

I think the argument of HFT providing liquidity is interesting.

From my understanding, HFT's do not trade against each other. They trade primarily only against retail.

If you also look at the decline in volume and the rise of HFT, it would be difficult to say HFT is providing liquidity.

I think the decline in participation is because people are viewing markets as rigged, unwinnable scenarios, so they stop participating.

I also think dark pools are to blame. We are seeing more and more discussion of dark pools, and they are getting much bigger. This is like "Internet2", making a second internet that only the ultra-exclusive banks have access to, and putting all the best content there. It is faster that the original Internet, and is private - not visible to the eyes of regulation or outsiders.

If the dark pools are allowed to continue, then we will continue to see the decline of the public marketplace.

Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)
 
Jigsaw Trading's Avatar
 Jigsaw Trading  Jigsaw Trading is an official Site Sponsor
 
Posts: 2,988 since Nov 2010
Thanks Given: 831
Thanks Received: 10,393

I don't remember those days...

I don't remember the days when computer programmers used paper tape....

I don't remember the days when your TV had to warm up before the picture was clear....

I don't remember the days when ladies didn't speak before being spoken to...

Have I missed much?

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)
 
Private Banker's Avatar
 Private Banker 
La Jolla, CA
 
Experience: Master
Platform: Sierra Chart, X_Trader Pro, OptionsCity
Broker: Advantage, Trading Technologies, OptionsCity, IQ Feed
Trading: CL, NG
Posts: 1,038 since Jul 2010
Thanks Given: 1,713
Thanks Received: 3,863

I think a lot of traders use the HFT's as an excuse to why they can't make money. In reality, a majority of these HFT's are participating in lightning fast transactions between the bid/ask spread on various markets or some sort of arb between different products. The majority of the HFT's are most likely present in individual stocks that have high daily volume. There have been examples where an algo goes haywire and sweeps the book creating some weird geometric chart pattern. I would say those are the one's that need to go away.

As long as HFT's do not change the overall market structure, one can still make money trading in the market. If the market were to become highly illiquid and traditional market structure becomes unrecognizable, that will be the time to move on to another market.

I remember when there were very little HFT's in the market and the DOM was a much more reliable tool. Now it's a bunch of fake orders flashing in and out. So, it's important to adapt to that change and look for tools that will help you see the true orders being executed vs. the tap dance being displayed in the DOM. Tracking cumulative delta has been the best way for me to watch the aggressiveness of buyers vs. sellers which is no longer clearly viewable in the DOM because of the use of Iceberg orders.

Here is an interesting paper on the effects of Dark Pools vs. lit trading venues. Pretty interesting.

https://www.stanford.edu/~howardz/Zhu_darkpool.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, various
Broker: various, TDA
Trading: NQ,ES
Posts: 2,124 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 2,396
Thanks Received: 1,748

Couple of clips yesterday on CNBC alerted by a HFT watchdog :

4 minute volatile period caused by HFT
The Dangers of High-Speed Trading - CNBC

Example of possible HFT arbitrage
High-Frequency Trading at the Speed of Light - CNBC


Yeah, I recall seeing on CBOE.com news when "Dr. J" was one of the first to co-start an HFT firm over two years ago...

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #10 (permalink)
lookOutBelow
San Francisco, CA
 
Posts: 40 since Sep 2010
Thanks Given: 5
Thanks Received: 19



Cloudy View Post


Bunch of baloney. Explain to me how this creates an arbitrage situation?


NANEX has an agenda. They are creating fear out of nothing. Follow the money. Ask yourselves why Nanex is so outspoken against HFT.

Reply With Quote




Last Updated on May 28, 2012


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts