Agreed, and wanted to add my thoughts along that line.
The part many new traders don't think about is you have to stay at a size that is comfortable when you are on the wrong side of a trade. Get too big for yourself, whatever that amount may be, and you are no longer in control of the trade. And at that point, you are not "trading", you are being reckless.
I see one contract per $10k as a repeated "standard", but I would suggest that is if you have already proven to be good at trading. With leveraged instruments, you can make very respectable annual returns trading one contract per $100k. A constant average of only half a percent per day will make you richer than Bill Gates over a relatively short period of time. Yes, it will take years, and the other way holds the promise of months. But I see too many futures traders wanting to believe that the potential for massive exponential growth is the ONLY way to trade.
If a trader can forget the money on the upside, stay comfortable with what they risk to the downside, and have patience, their head will be in a much better place throughout the ride.
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Agreed. Newbies fixate on the upside, professionals plan around the potential downside. It is about risk control. The question is not what's the fastest way I can turn my $5k account into $10k, the question should be how can I grow $5k into $10k without it going to -$5k first.
Last edited by monpere; March 17th, 2012 at 01:32 PM.
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I am so much more at ease with what I am doing now that have got my head around concentrating on my method and RM & MM. Since I did that the money is taking care of itself pretty much.
I will say that do think that someone could make money on a 5k account trading 1 car only and building up however if you are only trading for extra income and not looking to become Warren or Bill then that goal is definatly doable. We'll see!!
I scale in and out as I pay homage to the fact that the markets can do anything at any time and are usually not the predictable and precise moving entities that I want them to be. There are just too many variables and the markets are always changing.
Rather than look at it as me not knowing what the hell I'm doing and just guessing, I try and use market unpredictability to my benefit, using more significant support and resistance areas as buy and sell areas. I treat trading as a retail business, generally buying -- scaling in -- after sell-offs to support areas with wide 'disaster' stops and selling -- scaling out -- into resistance areas during strength. Stock index futures or ETF's are inventory that I want to gradually accumulate and then eventually sell, never letting that long-side inventory get too large. Depending on your account size, it can be easier to do this with smaller chunks of an ETF rather than futures contracts where 1 NQ now = about 50K.
I like using the wider stops to give myself a chance to have a position come back into profitability after I am underwater on it for a while (I do hold overnight), essentially, 'getting lucky' eventually. When you trade all-in and then place -- the needed -- tighter stops, you end up taking a lot of 'smaller' losses that could have ended up being winners, had you scaled in with smaller positions and wider stops. But that's just me.
at this stage, this advanced methos doesn't seem self explanatory, so do what makes you money, not what makes you feel good.
I have trained traders, that insist that application of some common or inarcane technical analysis method must occur in precise or near precise measure, just for confirmation to occur and things to be right with the world,
they preferred to lose on their trades,
I have trained traders to accept what they told me when I was on the floor of a major NY exchange, very simple lesson:
profits makes it right, all politics and morality aside!
profits makes it right (the position, the timing, the trade, the effort, the emotions, the fears, the greed, etc)
profits makes it right
now, if you have forgotton what sort of business and industry this is, and if this is not your primary secular means of production, or profit, or earnings, or wages, or survival, then perhaps whatever other "goal" that you are honoring, is suiting you just fine
don't expect confluence,
don't expect agreement
don't expect someone, like us, are going to care, or teach for free
don't expect, other than casual conversation the weight and ethos of the value of the knowledge you receive on these threads (after all, its free), and all this is worth exactly what you've paid for it.
all the best,
I do know what works, and so do the others, who have remained on these threads for quite some time
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You actually have no idea what my background is. I could type anything (and so could anyone else) in the box where I typed "apprentice trader". How unbelievably petty (and gullable) of you to even mention this at all in your response! What in the world were you thinking? "Play the ball at all times -- never the man." Come on, you're better than this.
I aksed you to show me some chart patterns (or some other data) where your most profitable play was/woud have been to "scale-out"??
I did not get an answer? Not from you --- or anyone else who advocates or defends this methodology.
Philosophical waxing, talking in circles and spouting-off unsubstantiated credentials isn't an answer to me.
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I have to agree. There is too much zen philosophy, good ole sayings, nursery rhymes, and sports analogies from posters when talking about trading. If we want to illustrate our points or perspectives, we need to do it with actual trading examples. I have learned a lot from posters on this thread, and have done my best to impart on others some of the things that I've learned, otherwise, forums like these would be a waste of time. If everyone makes the effort to share concrete trade ideas rather then lofty prose, we will all be better for it.
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Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
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why would I?
why should I?,
because you asked?,
these are professional boards, used to entertain, in-between serious sessions of trading and making / losing money.
well, its clear just how much attitude is coming out both ways, but arrogance, in demanding or challenging one to look at something and prove something to YOU.
last time I looked, my paycheck was signed by me and the CME,
hope you're better than an apprentice, or you update your own self selected moniker appropriately, so we all can have a better, more professional opinion, as you demand, of you, and you certainly deserve all the respect,