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Advice from traders with 5+years experience
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Advice from traders with 5+years experience

  #31 (permalink)
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What instrument then?

Would be appropriate if one was going trade on a 5k account size to start off next time in? Micro FX? I really never traded much FX before even when I was coming up. I supposed I could start to learn it though as I am not in this thing for anything other than to make money.

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  #32 (permalink)
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Private Banker View Post
Thanks! I'm a huge fan of that movie and it was my inspiration for getting into the biz and working on the Street.

Great trivia question, you should've at least let me give a crack at it before you answered, lol! I was actually thinking this: "Oh, jeez, I wish you could see this … the lights coming up. I've never seen a painting that captures the beauty of the ocean in a moment like this. I'm going to make you rich, Bud Fox, rich enough you can afford a girl like Darien. This is your wake up call, pal. Go to work." Lol!

I agree with what you said about using good money management such as having multiple targets. I'm a firm believer in your success rate greatly increases when trading with multiple contracts. I break my positions into 1/3's and it really allows for removing risk as the trade progresses while ensuring a profitable or BE trade depending on how you structure your targets.

Obviously my $10,000/contract is extremely conservative and really just aimed at complete new traders that have zero trading experience. If someone has a relatively high probability set up coupled with sound money management like we just mentioned, I'm sure someone could trade with far less capital. And you're right, sometimes having too big of an account creates a false sense of security. I've seen guys blow through 6 figures like nothing. It's usually the guys that don't use stops or add to their losers on a strong trending market.

Anyway, great post!


I like you!


someone understands what this life of trading in a box, can do to a mind

wow, I was thinking of that part of the quotation,

funny how everyone can see different aspects of the same picture

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  #33 (permalink)
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PowerBroker View Post
Would be appropriate if one was going trade on a 5k account size to start off next time in? Micro FX? I really never traded much FX before even when I was coming up. I supposed I could start to learn it though as I am not in this thing for anything other than to make money.

I don't want to take over this thread and others should feel free to add their thoughts on this as well but for a $5k account, you could trade a few micro EUR/USD contracts that would allow for scale outs. The problem with those contracts is the commissions paid are high relative to the tick size I would imagine. So, your targets would need to be much more than your commission costs obviously. You could look at the NQ. The tick size is much smaller than say ES but there are still some great moves to be had there. Even ES can be traded as the volatility is pretty low. It really depends on what you're looking for and only you will know which market is right for you. But you have to pay attention to the volatility. A stop amount on a low vol day will not work when the crap is hitting the fan and the daily range is blowing through the roof. Right now, the ES is remaining within a fairly tight range but a few months back, it's range was something like Crude Oil's. You have to be reactive to that.

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  #34 (permalink)
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Thanks PB.

I am in ES now and am doing fairly well on it on sim at about 3 points and day on what trades I take in there. I am studying the 15 minute charts now so that I can perhaps trade for higher points. however right now my method in there is working nicely for me if I just wait for it to come to me. The patients is the hardest part for me in the ES but I am mastering it because I know the set up WILL come.

The only other instrument I look at currently and trade daily is ZW and I'm making 5-10 points daily in there on sim again if I wait for it in the morning. It is very predicable and that's why I trade it. Gonna maybe start to look at corn a bit as well.

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  #35 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Scaling?? Kronie...


Forgive me, but this is a subject that I have serious problems with. I attempted to find an answer on another thread and all i got was stuff like "it's a personal preference thing".

No, I don't care how sucessful you (or anyone else) has been UP TO THIS POINT with this approach -- I want some type of logical argument that tells me that this is something more than admitting that you have absolutely no clue as to where price is headed and are hedging, hem-hawing and running scared.

Please look back at charts and previous trades -- and show me a point where it was the most profitable play to "scale-out"? If you can't find any, then it could not be have been the best play. Nor could it be in the future, could it?

At any given point in a trade, are there any two actions that may prove to be correct after all is said and done other than:

a. Hold/Add ?
b. Close/Reverse ?

"Scaling-out" seems like a cop-out (albeit a very commonly accepted/rampantly excused one) and an indication that the trader involved is quite indecisive -- assuming the trader (like most of us) is not trading enough size to risk moving the market considerably by closing-out in full.

I believe that "scaling-out" is "trading the money" --- as opposed to the market.


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  #36 (permalink)
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@Paige, good luck trying to get the market to conform to your wishes or ideas.

I know it will not, which is why I scale out.

I think most traders that have been trading cash (not sim) for a long time realize there is more to the market than pure math. There is crowd behavior and psychology, not just with how the market reacts, but how you as an individual react.

While AIAO may be mathematically superior, it is not realistically superior from any trader I know personally. There are some traders on the forum however that swear by it (AIAO), which goes to show everyone is different.

The point is to do what works best for you.


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  #37 (permalink)
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I would also add to keep a trading journal so you can document each one of your trades and later analyze what you did right or wrong. Did you follow your plan? Did you get out of your trade too early? etc. This has helped me quite a bit.

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  #38 (permalink)
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I trade AIAO and it works for me. I like the in out quick (as possible) method I am using. Unless the market is really cooking and the PA and volatility is as such that you can perhaps get a nice runner so be it. Nothing wrong with taking off 80% at your PT and then moving to BE+1 and then running the last 2 out. At this point it's a win win and still a free trade with money in the bank.

If the market is NOT really moving good then the extra added stress and anxiety of try to run is just not worth it to me. As I 've said before it's 0 drama, 0 stress, and 0 complications and I ain't lookin for any..LOL

I will say that if you are using a trailing ATR stop on the right chart settings with the right time frame the runner method can work perhaps very well. I imagine it would take the emotion out of it at that point if you have moved to BE+1. I have not played with that as of yet though. Anyone?

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  #39 (permalink)
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The point is to do what works best for you.

Amen Mike

TO many traders are getting caught up in trying trade like another trader. I seriously believe that can get you in trouble at some point. I would say take bits and pieces from different methods and make one for yourself then master it. I know since I have done this everything is now finally starting to gel as it were and I am becoming more CP by the day.

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  #40 (permalink)
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jsd45 View Post
I graduated college and have been trading for about 7 months....For the more experience traders, what are somethings you did as rookie trader that you look back on and wish you hadn't? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated to...

1) Traded live before I had 5 years experience.

If I could sum it up, that would be it.

I consider myself a "trader" now, but that term involves so many things that I never would have thought of when I started, more things than could ever be explained until you experience them. Almost like asking what does it take to be a man. Experience, experience, experience. Get to where you believe you understand trading, and then to where you decide that you realy don't understand it, and then to where you really do get it this time, and then doubt yourself again... Until you find your niche.

2) Went into trading with a need to make money

There is something in the mind that causes a need to be profitable to become your greatest enemy in actually being profitable. Play with it, get comfortable, relax, forget the money. Make your losses an amount that means no more to you than blowing a few bucks on a night out. Focus on trading correctly, finding your way, not on making money.

3) Did not initially take the time to understand chart analysis and market behavior.

I trade very small moves, but I always keep a view of longer timeframes and where the motion might be inside those. Any "edge" is a good one, and sometimes having a clue where the markets may go over the next few days can be what makes all the difference. Learn where support ans resistance might come in, why it comes in in those areas, what it looks like when it works and what it looks like when it doesn't. Use that knowledge to limit the conditions under which you will be willing to take a trade.

4) Tried to trade multiple markets.

Pick a market, a chart setting, a screen layout, a few indicators, and become an expert at those and those alone. Get to where you know your charts and settings inside and out, forwards and backwards. Know what causes your indicators to do what they do. Even though I read that chart analysis works on "any market any timeframe", I know from experience that it works at least somewhat differently on nearly every timeframe and every market.

5) Had little patience and unreasonable expectations

Sure you can make huge amounts of money as a trader. At 7 months though, you are easy prey. If someone is going to make money trading, they can only do it by someone else losing money. Get into your head that as a new trader, you are going to get your butt kicked, for awhile. Think of trading as a game of survival where your challenge is to just figure out how to not get killed. That is step one. Then slowly turn the experience you gain from that into a way to possibly make a few dollars here and there. Scraps. Over time you can build the knowledge base required, but time is the key word.

6) Thought win percentage was the only way to go

Keep you winners larger than your losers. That one rule, if you can make yourself do it (holding winners can often prove harder than holding losers), will give you the best chance of coming out ahead over time. If your winners are at least two times the size of your losers, and if you can be right 50% of the time, basically a coin toss, you will make money.

7) Tried to trade too much, too often, all the time

The market moves constantly, and new traders seem to see that as constant potential. Wrong. There are times when you have a far better chance of an outcome, and until you know when and where that works FOR YOU, keep your hands off the mouse.

8) Ignored the power of simulated trading

I recently set a friend up with a simulated account. After a few days he said he lost interest in it because it was not real money. That is normal, and the desire to get into the game takes over quickly. But trading requires practice, and during that practice you will lose money. I am not saying it is not beneficial to lose real money, that I believe is a requirement, a rite of passage. But if you can find the determination to focus on learning, not making money, if I had it to do over that is where I would start.

Good luck. Trade SAFE.

Last edited by GaryD; March 17th, 2012 at 01:39 PM. Reason: typos
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