Murrey Math always calculates based on the action of the particular chart it is on. Here aresome examples:
Chart one is 4 tick ES, 32 frame (frame size also makes a big difference)
Chart two is 6 tick ES, 32 frame
Chart three is 1 min ES, 32 frame
The first three charts have historical lines plotted so you can see the MM WILL shift frequently.
Chart four is the same 1 min chart at 64 frame and historical lines off. You can see the difference in the line spread.
The point is every chart can look different depending on the type of chart, time frame of the chart, the frame setting of the indicator, etc. Even data from different sources on the same chart and settings can have an effect, so MM is certainly no grail. It also CAN be a big help to people who know how to use it.
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I am really liking MML, but there is a nagging question which I hope some nice person on this forum might address.
When the market trades above +2/8 or -2/8 line the frame shifts, at least when set to auto. All of the sudden we go from completely overbought/OS to the 4/8 line which is the middle of the "playing field". That's a quantum leap and creates a lot of confusion and ambiguity IMO. How do you reconcile that please?
If it always shifts to the 4/8's line then it is not working correctly. It should re-plot according to the data it is analyzing, not to any preset condition. You can clearly see that in a couple of the prior chart pics. Also the shift should not be dependent on price moving beyond any line as you can also see.
I have listened to a number of Murrey's free events recently and he stated that it should shift when price close above or below the + - 2/8 line. Murrey mentioned once if it closed 4 cents above and then another time 5 cents close above the + - 2/8 line it should shift frames. Even the Murrey indicators floating, ie Esignal MML efs 4.04, around seem to do this as well.
I am not sure about the reset to the 4/8 line as it doesn't happen often but I will check it closer.
My question is more about how to handle the frame resets, I will call them. Going from extreme OS/OB to a completely different area creates some confusion/conflict.
You are right also. There seems to be a number of reasons why they will shift and price moving to the extremes will do it. Coincidently the 4/8s line may move close to current price but not always. As far as needing a shift at all, what if price moves through all the upper lines and beyond before 11:00 AM and all subsequent movement is above the highest line? Does that mean MM is useless at that point if there are no recalculations? Think of fibs as an analogy. When price makes new highs, lows or major swings you would redraw your fibs according to the new price action. MM does the same thing. Extreme OB or OS is a temporary condition and is changeable. Look at a Stochastic. Say price is rising nicely and the Stochastic is way in the overbought zone near 100. Price starts to move sideways for a bit but the Stochastic may move all the way down into the oversold area. Wait, what? It doesn't look oversold. When price resumes its upward march the Stoch moves up again. It was a kind of reset so it can work again. I know this example is sloppy but the point is when conditions change, indicators can too and still be effective.
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I noticed today what you mentioned E Danny. Market was at 8/8 and gaped up on the volatile action, probably past + 2/8 and frame reset leaving price action to 6/8 then it kept going up to 7/8 and then dropped pretty hard.
Has anyone here actually paid and taken any Murrey Math training????
Quotes below are by Murrey from his intro webinar this morning:
"$123.50 combo special to get started with Murrey math: 2 months of software: manuals: leanring CD: and free $50.00 Murrey Rules classes plus several live real time classes and you get to join Murrey's online weekly predicitons...jump in and join winners who have beeen pauing Murrey for the past ten years"
"join us pay us money to get the rythm of the markets or continue to lose money and use outdated software line "
"tell everyine the world standard is mm lines"
"if you dont know them you are years behind: catch up and pay us and get 5,000 pages of knowledge recorded the past 15 momnths in the mm online forum at: murrey math ofr 90 days $90.00 to get Murrey's weekly predifitons"
"doens't it piss you off to have someone ask you to pay for knowldege? when you can steal for free off Internet like songs and movies?"
"Do you encourage your 1st grader chikdre to steall off the Intenrext all their hoimework?"
I took his class several years ago. The remarks you posted by him are the same stuff he was dishing out then. He is a drunk and womanizer that doesn't trade, but I have to admit he can be very charming and personable. I would put him the class of an excellent side show barker and oddity.
As for the efficacy of his methods- it turns out that if you do a statistical analysis of the hit rate of 8 random equidistant lines drawn across a daily chart, you get the same hit rate that his lines provide, roughly around 40%.
At the time I took his course, he also had a book that was offered- it was totally unreadable- as many pages were repeated at odd intervals. When I asked him about this, he said he knew and that he had so many copies to sell that he wasn't even interested in fixing it until he sold out.
Also, he was continually promising to have his software fixed of its many bugs, but because his software guy was in Germany and the Murray owed him money-it might take some time.
Due to the fact there are so many misspellings in his remarks, I would think things have gotten worse for him rather then better(substance abuse can do that to you).
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Interesting. Thanks for your feedback. As someone once posted I don't know if he is crazy or crazy like a fox. The only thing I would take some exception with, since we all can agree Murrey is Gann based, Gann drew from swing high to low and the sectioned into to 8ths not just random.
That's kind of the idea I was getting about him after watching and listening to his intro webinar for 2 days. Taking a swig off the bottle between sentences and his only interest is peddling his wares to support his whatevers. I'll watch his lines out of curiosity but I haven't found a suitable time frame or range for them yet.