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managing full time job while learning to trade
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managing full time job while learning to trade

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
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managing full time job while learning to trade

I have been spending 8-10hrs/day and 6 days/week (except sunday - to avoid thrown out from home but I messed up my full time job really bad, as I couldnt focus. I came twice very close enough to get fired, but had huge luck and I was excused.

I tried not to look at charts from work through a VPS and spend only evenings and early mornings, but it is in the head to think about charting , so couldn't focus the job, which screwed up my health as well, after 2 1/2 yrs

I like to see how others manage to learn this while doing full time job, so anyone want to share their experiences is appreciated. thanks,

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  #3 (permalink)
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emini_Holy_Grail View Post
I have been spending 8-10hrs/day and 6 days/week (except sunday - to avoid thrown out from home but I messed up my full time job really bad, as I couldnt focus. I came twice very close enough to get fired, but had huge luck and I was excused.

I tried not to look at charts from work through a VPS and spend only evenings and early mornings, but it is in the head to think about charting , so couldn't focus the job, which screwed up my health as well, after 2 1/2 yrs

I like to see how others manage to learn this while doing full time job, so anyone want to share their experiences is appreciated. thanks,

I think, like most things, practice is a question of quality over quantity. You don't need all day everyday and being obsessed may cause you more problems than they are worth.
I think most of the ground work for trading can be done by looking at charts after hours. Just understanding the price action is most of the battle. You could even get a simulated replay setup that you could practice on after hours, though, again, I think the practice here isn't the main thing, it's just the watching of the price action and understanding it.

Once you get to the point where you want to try, you will need to find something that can be traded outside of the hours you are working. Or maybe take a late lunch and catch the afternoon session for an hour. Watching charts for more than an hour at a time is difficult for me and I would think most beginners. Just keep it to a reasonable level. This will also help avoid burnout, I would think.

Stay calm. Be patient. It will most likely work itself out but it will take a long time...

You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room.
Dr. Seuss
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  #4 (permalink)
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I am going to post this here as well. It my response to a PM.
I put some time in to it so thought it might be beneficial to someone else:

I may have given you the wrong impression. I am not a consistently profitable trader. I think I am getting close but there is not way of knowing just yet.

The advice I gave you I think is good. You seemed obsessive about this and it struck a chord with me, I don't think it needs to be that way, though the journey is different for everybody.

I don't want to discourage you, but I have been at this a long long time, over 10 years, and I feel like only now I am getting close. Even then, i don't know what it would take to actually make a living at it, (being consistently profitable and making a living are two very different things).

If you are hell bent on being able to do this instead of a 9-5 job, I would say that that, in itself, will hinder you from being successful. But maybe not, we are all different. there are no rules... But I would suggest trying to find a way that you can work and be happy in your job and try to calmly watch charts when you get the time.

One thing I am certain of, there are no rules. Don't listen to anybody. This is a personal journey and you will most likely take it alone. I started doing a lot better when I stopped trying to find someone to show me the way and just quietly went to work on my own. I really think that is the only way... oh, you may find a mentor out there somewhere, but it's unlikely. I have found that to be a frustrating endeavor and have long since given it up.

The key to trading is the key to life... be happy with who you are and where you are... but even that probably won't make you a successful trader.

Good luck.

You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room.
Dr. Seuss
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  #5 (permalink)
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Market Replay Data


JEHs View Post
I think, like most things, practice is a question of quality over quantity. You don't need all day everyday and being obsessed may cause you more problems than they are worth.
I think most of the ground work for trading can be done by looking at charts after hours. Just understanding the price action is most of the battle. You could even get a simulated replay setup that you could practice on after hours, though, again, I think the practice here isn't the main thing, it's just the watching of the price action and understanding it.

Once you get to the point where you want to try, you will need to find something that can be traded outside of the hours you are working. Or maybe take a late lunch and catch the afternoon session for an hour. Watching charts for more than an hour at a time is difficult for me and I would think most beginners. Just keep it to a reasonable level. This will also help avoid burnout, I would think.

Stay calm. Be patient. It will most likely work itself out but it will take a long time...

Another option is to just market replay data. Then you don't have to look a single chart at work at all.

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  #6 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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I run my own business so I don't have to worry about a boss looking at me every time I check the charts.
However, the pressure to run my business efficiently is greater than having a boss.

My solution to this problem is to not trade at work.
My typical day is 8 to 12 hrs working. (including travel to and from).

So when do I trade?

I have found that allocating a very short time each day is sufficient to make a nice supplement to my income.

That time is mostly from 6 am until 7:30 or 8:00am central.
The movement is sufficient to make several trades.
Some days if I notice some big news in Europe,
I will trade during the London session (2 - 4 am) instead of the 6 - 8 time.

I used to try and trade for 8 hours a day.
That was insanity.
I was never consistent.
And my business as well as my trading suffered.

The issue was that trying to trade for that many hours caused a failure in concentration.
When you loose the ability to stay focused you make mistakes and lose money.
(usually more than you have made while focused).

So the solution is not to trade and risk your job.
Put the hours in after or before your job.
Make the market your B*tch and not the other way around.

Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
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trade while not working

DavidHP

Thanks for sharing your experience. yes, I have come down to pick like 2 hrs in pre-market open.
I did try London session, but couldn't wake up more than 3 days and you are very right, it became too hard to learn when i became obsessed with it and trying to come out of it

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  #8 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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emini_Holy_Grail View Post
DavidHP

Thanks for sharing your experience. yes, I have come down to pick like 2 hrs in pre-market open.
I did try London session, but couldn't wake up more than 3 days and you are very right, it became too hard to learn when i became obsessed with it and trying to come out of it

Here are a few things on my personal philosophy list.

1. Eighty Nine minutes of intense focused work/trading, then 32 minutes play.
Play = Meditate, Walk, exercise, eat great food, work, enjoy important things.
This allows the part of your brain responsible for problem-solving, attention and creativity to refuel and helps stoke self-regulation ó aka willpower.

2. Donít be distracted by Unicorns and Mermaids and Myths about the Holy Grail.
Demand truth and real data not rumors and opinions.

3. Set goals that require sacrifices.
Every trader's life is too full, and if youíre going to add anything, first you have to take something out.
So, decide what you will sacrifice.
For every goal, choose one sacrifice.
That sacrifice may be: Sleep, things you enjoy, your job, video games, chores, etc.
If they still need to be done, hire them done or give them up.
You don't have enough time to do it all, so Choose...

Just remember one thing...
Choose to keep Important things and give up the Urgent things.
Urgent things DEMAND your attention...
Important things seldom do...
They just wait for you to allow them to be part of your life.
(Important = Children, meditation, friends, etc)
If something won't matter in 5 years...
Is it important or urgent?

Time is the best teacher...
the only problem is...
NONE of the students get out alive.
Make the most of it while you can.

Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
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  #9 (permalink)
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emini_Holy_Grail View Post
I have been spending 8-10hrs/day and 6 days/week (except sunday - to avoid thrown out from home but I messed up my full time job really bad, as I couldnt focus. I came twice very close enough to get fired, but had huge luck and I was excused.

I tried not to look at charts from work through a VPS and spend only evenings and early mornings, but it is in the head to think about charting , so couldn't focus the job, which screwed up my health as well, after 2 1/2 yrs

I like to see how others manage to learn this while doing full time job, so anyone want to share their experiences is appreciated. thanks,

Consider working with a large enough time frame to just pay attention to the more major -- gaps/moving averages/weekly high/low, etc -- support and resistance areas, observing how price behaves around those areas and then trading in the direction of the trend reversal or continuation from those price areas. Use bigger price targets and fairly tight stops (or switching to the other direction; chop is the downside of this approach but a necessary evil) for those trades .... that approach fits in with having a job and not continually looking at charts at work. Set alerts to notify you via cell when prices approach these support/resistance areas.

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"

Last edited by heywally; January 6th, 2012 at 09:05 AM.
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