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Do you need a mentor to be successful?
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Do you need a mentor to be successful?

  #81 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Heres the problem.

Like so many infomercial type adds to make money off the markets there must be even more people offering mentorship.
Any one who tries there hand at trading learns quite a bit that in theory should work but just doesnt.

Each one of these people that fail and loose money find them selves in a sticky situation.

Having not worked and being out of the real world for so long trying to decode the markets leaves one lost as to what to do.

The easy choice is to become a mentor. Since you have a good understanding of what should work theoretically you jsut repeat that. Also since there charts with there channels look so good they tend to get a flew of support and good words backing up their reputation.

Then all you have to say is what the 1% of real mentors say. I do it cause i get bored trading or i like to help people ect.

There is no way to know who is good or not and going by ref feral is probably the worst thing.

I have never had a mentor. And for this reason I will not get one. I would really love to have one that can increase my profits and all but it seems like the secrets of trading are always very complex and even if it is given to you you may still fail.

I think it is really unjust to the real mentors ( if there are actually people that make tones of money but are willing to slow down their life to help you .

The secret of trading is knowing how to filter through information and find what is relevant. A mentor that is one of the hardest things to filter out for me.

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  #82 (permalink)
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kbit View Post
I also think a mentor is not required, it would be very helpful though if you had one providing you KNOW that he is a good trader and makes money. I think you almost have to know someone who is a trader ahead of time.
With all the crooks and frauds and lunatics out there that greatly outnumber the legit guys your odds of finding a good mentor are so small that your better off alone if you don't already know someone. You just have to do a lot of homework and study and spend time conversing with fellow traders at futures.io (formerly BMT)...


Amen to that. on the last forum I was with I had a few people following my journal. Out of the kindness of there hart they were guiding me. using non live trades they showed me that what they were saying could only be done after the fact. When questioned they would site rules that were inconsistent but would explain why they did some thing.

Logically a profitable trader would have better things to do then sit around and help people. Not that they are mean people, but explaing some thing to some one that thinks you may be out to get his money isnt the best way a trader can give charity.

Some had a long history on that forum. some were brand new to the forum.

But the question was who were these people?

They are people that learnt alot, as you have. Im sure you can have gathered enough information to make your self feel like you have an edge and that is why you started trading.

So that information can be sold. Now buying advertising market is very competative and costly.
these guys lost alot of money and want to make some money back. they probably lost everyinthing they have and there wife and kids are getting hungry. What to do ?

They may have been ripped of by a bad mentor and have learnt how to express intrest in some ones journal for just the right amount of time and then disapearing.

They knew that the people that came to this forum were immune to advertising and being asked for money. So they dont ask. they give you bone. and make you ask. then they got you for multiple times the money that you would if you were asked for money. And yes learning is a long process so keep your wallet open. you lost it all. go get a second morgage cause your already screwed and have nothing to loose.

there are marketers that send out 1000 adds and 1 buys.

then there are marketers that send out 10 "adds" and 1 buys.

risk to reward ratios.

the risk of the guy who sends out 1000 adds is the cost. say its 50$ but his service sells for 100$

the risk to reward of the forum guy was 0 risk as cost is just his time. The return is high. but the time factor is very limiting. but once they catch a fish its over.

and dont think you can spot them. I could be one while i sit here and complain about them. you really cant tell.

Funny thing maybe one day i will "get it" and want to help some one, imagine how hard it would be when i am surrounded by people that failed and trying to recoup losses?

I would expect some one to line up. but they wouldn't. cause they probably already lined up and got stung with some one else.

a good mentor may be out there. but its a matter of time before he feels like people dont want to listen.

there profit in motoring. While on the other forum I once asked some one that appeared to be helping me and he quoted me 10,000$.

There was no way to tell the good from the bad on that site. and logic tells that for every good trader there were probably 100 failed ones trying to recoup there money. It was a much bigger forum and was used as a free advertising site more then to help some one trading.

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  #83 (permalink)
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If not a mentor, then what?


I have been following this thread for a while and this is what I have seen:

1) Most people think mentors are either well intentioned but incompetent or people trying to make money mentoring because they couldn't make it trading.
2) Some people think that a mentor (if you can find a good one) is a good thing but it's too hard to find one.
3) I have not seen anyone who had a mentor who has talked about how successful he has become. I may have missed it but obviously there aren't enough to count.
4) Most people think you really have to do all of the work yourself.

However what I find amazing is that with a 95% failure rate, people who want to become traders haven't figured out that doing it all yourself doesn't work. If we agree that mentors are not the right solution then what else can we do to become successful traders?

Everyone knows how to lose weight and most people who try to do it by themselves fail. Even those who go to weight loss 'groups' have a high failure rate. It's not enough to know what to do and not enough to go to people who will tell you what to do.

So if doing 'it' yourself and getting a mentor are not the answers, what is?

It may be very true that you can only learn how to be a trader by yourself and the result is that you only stand a 5% chance of success. Sometimes the truth hurts.

However, I would love to hear from traders who have a new idea to present.

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  #84 (permalink)
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gcaldridge View Post

So if doing 'it' yourself and getting a mentor are not the answers, what is?

It may be very true that you can only learn how to be a trader by yourself and the result is that you only stand a 5% chance of success. Sometimes the truth hurts.

However, I would love to hear from traders who have a new idea to present.

The critical argument that 'if a + b !=c' than 'a + anything != c'. I disagree...

As stated, MENTOR != SUCCESS

MENTOR + PERSISTENCE + MENTAL CAPACITY + TIME = SUCCESS (In my opinion)

I have yet to meet a trader who has done it all by himself without a mentor/coach in a longer or shorter amount of time. Heck, I have yet to personally meet any truly 'successful' traders (I mean earn more than 500K per year from trading (NOT VENDING!))


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  #85 (permalink)
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Having a mentor does not guarantee success

In my opinion a mentor can be helpful but it is not a guarantee of your success. A mentor can guide you in a right direction but is it the right direction for you?

We're all different and you may find a mentor that is a very successful trader to teach you their trading method/system. But is it compatible with your personality? If not, you probably won't be successful even with a successful method/system. At the end of the day it is still up to you to pull the trigger or not.

Based on my own experience it seems that a mentor will be more helpful to you after you have fumbled your way around trading for a while only to find out how difficult it is and to discover your likes and dislikes and what works best for you. Even though I've bought methods/systems that were successfully traded by others I always thought I could make them better than they were and wasted a lot of time proving that I couldn't.

I am working with someone now trying to learn a new style of trading. It is causing me to unlearn and rethink a lot of what I had learned and believed before. Hopefully, this will be what I have been looking for all the time.

Best to all seeking success at trading.

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  #86 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
The critical argument that 'if a + b !=c' than 'a + anything != c'. I disagree...

As stated, MENTOR != SUCCESS

MENTOR + PERSISTENCE + MENTAL CAPACITY + TIME = SUCCESS (In my opinion)

I have yet to meet a trader who has done it all by himself without a mentor/coach in a longer or shorter amount of time. Heck, I have yet to personally meet any truly 'successful' traders (I mean earn more than 500K per year from trading (NOT VENDING!))


I can accept that equation so let's look at the variables:

Mental capacity: I have seen many 'opinions' that you don't have to be above average to win at trading. Besides which you really can't do anything about it.

Time: There is a finite amount of time anyone has available. If you make all the time available that you possibly can then you are left with the last two variables.

Persistence: Absolutely agree that Persistance (plus discipline, patience, etc.) are essential. Many of us, including myself (or maybe it's only me ) are not good at this. Improving this personal trait is very difficult because it takes persistence to learn persistence. This is a little like pulling yourself up by your own socks. Regardless, improving persistence and the other traits, is essential to successful trading. So how do you do that?

Mentoring: Assuming you can find a legitimate skilled Mentor/Coach what do you expect of him/her and why will what he does make you change?

I will leave that last question as the challenge to further responses.

I encourage people to venture (new) ideas.

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  #87 (permalink)
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gcaldridge View Post

Mentoring: Assuming you can find a legitimate skilled Mentor/Coach what do you expect of him/her and why will what he does make you change?

I will leave that last question as the challenge to further responses.

I encourage people to venture (new) ideas.

Great Question....

1. I expect them to see or understand me as a person.

2. I expect them to see how I am interpreting the market and how that does not serve me.

3. I expect them to have expertise to guide me to the holy land of consistent profitability.

OR----

1. I expect them to show me a path that they chose and continue to do daily.

2. I expect them to allow me to chime in and ask questions as to why certain trades were taken or evaluated etc..

3. I expect them to be open, honest with themselves and me.

I think you could break them up in emotional and physical mentoring or both.

I hope this make some sense... (This would be for a paying mentor by the way which to me is really not the best mentor to have)

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  #88 (permalink)
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There is nothing a mentor can teach you that you can't find for free online. If you're good with Google, save your money.

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  #89 (permalink)
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Hello traitor,

A mentor can help!

When I started trying to trade (over 5 years ago) I was exploring various classic indicators for entry and exit - I failed miserably.

My entry was usually good - my exit sucked - I had know Idea why.

I employed a mentor. The guy had a good trading method, but more importantly, I learned a lot tricks that I never considered - the most important of which is trade management and risk analysis.

We spent a lot of time understanding what the tape was saying, understanding market conditions, qualifying setups, etc.

Working with a person that knew how to successfully trade made all the difference in the world.

I don't use his system anymore - I have several systems now - I do use trade management and risk analysis extensively - and I am constantly looking for ways to classify and take advantage of changing market conditions.

I would not have made it without a mentor.

If you decide to go this direction - find a person that can work with you one-on-one.

,...Gustav

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  #90 (permalink)
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good thread...lots of words of wisdom. Very good gentlemen

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