Good post thanks. How did you go about finding your coaches/mentors? How did you establish their credibility and 'qualifications'? I think this is a critical question that needs to answered in this discussion.
This is very true. Another reason why getting into the business is difficult. There is also the issue if the mentor's style will fit in with your trading. I believe a mentor's job is to simply give the trader the foundations and the individual over time has to built their own unique way of looking at the mkt that makes sense to them.
Futurestrader71: "The best analogy I use for trading is race car driving. You can jump into Ayrton Senna’s car (deceased legendary Formula 1 racer) and use his exact seat adjustment, mirror positions, helmet and everything else. The results will not be the same even if Ayrton talked you through it all. You have to make it your own. You have to come with the right attitude. If it makes sense, then who cares who I am?"
I have a son who excels in baseball. He is only 8th grade but plays on the varsity team.
Some of the older kids resent this a little.
But some of them like to help him about and talk him through nerves and things.
They think it's cool and they like to bring him in and make him a better player...
I always tell my son to remember those guys... When you are in 11th or 12th grade or even older there will be some little kid like you who just loves the game and wants to learn... Be the type of older kid that you like to be around now.
I admire good coaching when I see it. It is a skill.
Hopefully, if I ever get somewhat proficient at trading, I will be able to be that coach for someone else.
I started a business 25 years ago. I am not a huge success, but I have done OK. I did not have any sort of a mentor there ever. Totally self taught...
I build some amazing things in my shop. Because I never apprenticed under a master woodworker, I can probably not ever call myself a "master", but I do pretty well with it.
I have always told my kids, success in most things come from just being a nice person... Waking up in the morning with the simple goal of doing the right things. Living the right life. I think now matter what you are pursuing, a good coach teaches you these things above all else. Maybe I am naive...
Just some random thoughts on the subject...
You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room.
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Lornz is correct, a newbie who has no idea WHAT to think, cannot objectively stand a good chance of finding a constructive mentor. In contrast, I also firmly believe what JEH said below - he knows skill when he sees it. I don't know how to answer that objectively. I can tell you my evolution in that process.
He cannot be a teacher only. His primary occupation must be a trader.
He does not have to give it away (I distrust free stuff AS MUCH as I distrust pie-in-the-sky prices).
If he shows me his screen (a must) he must be able to identify with immediacy something I never thought of, something that pops out immediately on say, a simple plain non-indicator 5min candle chart.
His primary goal must be to control his risk, not to make money.
He cannot ever blame the market, ever!
It is not important to me whether he shows me his trading statement (no one will do that). I want to see immediate value in his analysis of the market, no matter what chart, as long as its a big enough chart.
Pro traders often share similar traits, they are humble to the market yet enormously confident of their ability to stick to a stop and target.
They have very little opinion on ANYTHING under the sun.
Anecdotally, they are boring people... because they are actuarial in not just their trading but to everything in life. They will often be right brained thinkers (most will have multiple careers, and either be serially successful or serially failures until trading).
They all have a 10yr and a 20yr plan, with weekly, monthly benchmarks.
They take each day as a single performance.
He must be able to identify trends, amplitudes, pull-backs and all price action with logical reason. If he can't he must not commit any risk to the market. And he must wait as long as it takes. All day, all week if necessary.
Each and every trait above must be immediately perceived by you.
It cannot be esoteric, no magical stuff here, simpler is better....if you don't get what he is selling within minutes and say....aha!, and can't get your blood tingling...then leave. he is after your money. Or worse, a charlatan.
Such people exist, they are not chimeras. It takes time and effort to uncover gems. Why should stuff reveal itself to me unless I am willing to sweat blood for it. I have no entitlement, I do my best and then I do more...
Let's simplify this, how do you tell if some one is skilled at ANYTHING in life. Doctors, lawyers, carpenters, mechanics, anybody? Throw away degrees and reputations and anything perceived. How can you tell if Kyle Bass is the real deal and Dennis Gartman and Jim Rogers are trolls?
So how do you scientifically find them? I have no answer, I asked my broker - he gave me leads immediately to pros who, in one way or another agreed to be contacted. I asked, one thing lead to another...some conversations later I found one....and through his network 4months later I found another.
In the last few months, I found 2more, more or less same way. But I have enough homework already for the next 5years!
I hope this helps in some manner. Its not a how to manual, or the right or wrong way, pick A way and refine it as you go along, keep your eyes and ears open and your trap shut.
And now, I will shut my trap, since I have yapped for far too long. I read somewhere on this site, that a trader once said he wished he could take back EVERYTHING he ever said or wrote. I concur
Last edited by Deucalion; December 12th, 2011 at 09:34 PM.
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I'm 6000 plus hrs in, been full time trading going on 2 yrs, I move as fast as anyone trying new charts,backtesting etc. I read my first book cover to cover 5 mths ago and it was on trading-Go Figure lol. They say 95% of daytraders fail,well so does 95% of small buisinesses. Ive started 7 still have 2 sold 2 others let others go when something better came along. In life I always used a different path from the norm, because if everyone enters the same path on one side of the forest who comes out first on the other side first,Everyone. You cant win a race like that! But for some reason when I started trading, I've used the same path as everyone else.
I was as green 2 yrs ago as anyone can be to the markets. I researched a broker that is well know and went with it. The broker demo/sim was down all the time. They said it was because it was for teaching you how to use there live account not trade with it. Can you say I paid them alot of commissions. I was in stocks then now I'm trying to get the ES. Switched to Ninja/different broker and now I'm trying to get a system that works day in and day out. Yes I've had uptrending and downtrending and chop trading setups. They all worked on the right days but who can predict the movement for this day?
I found Mike and futures.io (formerly BMT) when I switched to Ninja, I've read ALOT of post and have gotten a good read on ALOT of the people posting. When you start a new business you have upfront investment which you can lose. My thoughts on trading was no different. You have to have experience it can't be taught it has to be learned, but man what I would have gave for a mentor in the beginning or even now. Its been a costly journey for me to get here. I ve got stories geez!!!!! I have replied to certain members looking for some guidance. I understand most are busy so no reply isnt taken the wrong way. As many have stated why would a mentor want to help you? They had to learn it the hard way guess you should have to lose as they did. I used to have a similar attitude in the real world business. But the markets have made me humble, I'm more compassionate to others.
I wasted alot of time trying to find chart setups with this or that indicator.MISTAKE
Ive never paid one person that offers trading schools,videos,indicators etc because I would have gladly paid if they could show me them trading live on a few days and been successful >NONE would accept that offer. I understand their business model, SELL product So Ive let the market teach me how it moves, can you predict a accident before it happens when driving,no matter how alert you are? I have set a date by the end of Feb 2012 if I don't feel confident with my trading I'm done! I'm a break even trader now if thats good or bad I dont know. Im tired, Ive sacrificed more in this thing than anything in my life!
The reason I had such a long response is I want any new trader that reads this to know whats ahead! Yes If you can find a MENTOR, first make sure he's got a proven track record because I can talk the talk and show you backtesting or perfect day scenarios. But if he will help you by all means listen and learn.
Im back to price action, trend lines from today forward! futures.io (formerly BMT) members I hope I get to stay around I'm still forward fast, because more than anything I dont want this to be my first failure at 40yrs old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO
Best Wishes to Everyone
FYI I dont talk about myself or my business,I almost deleted this but maybe it will help some moving forward
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