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Greece May Be First EU Default
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Greece May Be First EU Default

  #1 (permalink)
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Greece May Be First EU Default

Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Former Bank of England policy maker Willem Buiter said Greece may be the first major country in the European Union to default on its debts since the aftermath of World War II....

Former BOE Official Buiter Says Greece May Be First EU Default - Bloomberg.com

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a post from more than 5 years ago
and still very actual...

brings me to think,
if the 'problem' is not addressed, just throwing more money at the problem will not fix it

i remember a Greek friend explaining me, when i looked at a house that seemed not
finished, because some metals where still punching out, he explained VAT as only due
upon completion, so all house stayed in 'work in progress state' to avoid to have to pay
the VAT. in my country, you pay VAT as you go, every invoice you pay during construction

this very simple example shows, how it is easy that the government is lacking cash
as the system is full of holes and people use the holes not to pay tax, in the meantime
the country goes right to bankruptcy and the people votes (60%+) against any change

i challenge you, take a bank loan and miss a payment
and then ask for more money
you have 0% chance of obtaining it

here the picture is more complex,
as the other countries are taking into hostage,
if you stop paying the previous payments are lost

what is the good choice ?

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There is no choice.

Greece has become a large Ponzi scheme.

The Greek debt has been reduced by € 60 billion in 2012.

The debt had then be rescheduled and the coupon payments were reduced to 3.65%

As long as the Greek state is not willing to fix the current account deficit (before interest on outstanding loans), no further money should be sent.

As a taxpayer, my personal share in the Greek drama (German loans and guaranties divided by German population count) is € 4,000.

I am not amused.


The Greek population has just made a democratic decision that they want to take more of my money.

I had now scheduled a meeting of my family council and we made a democratic decision that we will not repay the mortgages for our home.

I strongly believe that the bank will accept this democratic decision and send me more money so that I can keep my house, pay for all charges and avoid foreclosure.


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rleplae View Post

i challenge you, take a bank loan and miss a payment
and then ask for more money
you have 0% chance of obtaining it

You owe a million to a bank, and can not repay, then you are in deep trouble.
You owe a billion to the bank, and can not repay....the bank is your partner.

Matt

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Last edited by mattz; July 7th, 2015 at 10:47 AM.
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Greece has become a large Ponzi scheme.

All economies everywhere are Ponzi schemes.

What did the troika think was going to happen? You can't borrow yourself out of debt. If the troika was dumb enough to keep lending money, that's their mistake. Greece wasn't going to say no to money it knew it would never pay back. The IMF knew that the Greek debt was unsustainable but let's lend them more money to keep the bankers happy and the status quo. Should have done better due digilence.

Good On You, Greece - But Don?t Waver Now (Part 2) | Zero Hedge

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https://truthandsatire.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/greece-the-one-biggest-lie-you-are-being-told-by-the-media/


Greece — The One Biggest Lie You Are Being Told By The Media


Every single mainstream media has the following narrative for the economic crisis in Greece: the government spent too much money and went broke; the generous banks gave them money, but Greece still can’t pay the bills because it mismanaged the money that was given. It sounds quite reasonable, right?

Except that it is a big fat lie … not only about Greece, but about other European countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland who are all experiencing various degrees of austerity. It was also the same big, fat lie that was used by banks and corporations to exploit many Latin American, Asian and African countries for many decades.

Greece did not fail on its own. It was made to fail.

In summary, the banks wrecked the Greek government, and then deliberately pushed it into unsustainable debt … while revenue-generating public assets were sold off to oligarchs and international corporations. The rest of the article is about how and why.

If you are a fan of mafia movies, you know how the mafia would take over a popular restaurant. First, they would do something to disrupt the business – stage a murder at the restaurant or start a fire. When the business starts to suffer, the Godfather would generously offer some money as a token of friendship. In return, Greasy Thumb takes over the restaurant’s accounting, Big Joey is put in charge of procurement, and so on. Needless to say, it’s a journey down a spiral of misery for the owner who will soon be broke and, if lucky, alive.

Now, let’s map the mafia story to international finance in four stages.

Stage 1: The first and foremost reason that Greece got into trouble was the “Great Financial Crisis” of 2008 that was the brainchild of Wall Street and international bankers. If you remember, banks came up with an awesome idea of giving subprime mortgages to anyone who can fog a mirror. They then packaged up all these ticking financial bombs and sold them as “mortgage-backed securities” for a huge profit to various financial entities in countries around the world.

A big enabler of this criminal activity was another branch of the banking system, the group of rating agencies – S&P, Fitch and Moody’s – who gave stellar ratings to these destined-to-fail financial products. Unscrupulous politicians such as Tony Blair joined Goldman Sachs and peddled these dangerous securities to pension funds and municipalities and countries around Europe. Banks and Wall Street gurus made hundreds of billions of dollars in this scheme.

But this was just Stage 1 of their enormous scam. There was much more profit to be made in the next three stages!

Stage 2 is when the financial time bombs exploded. Commercial and investment banks around the world started collapsing in a matter of weeks. Governments at local and regional level saw their investments and assets evaporate. Chaos everywhere!

Vultures like Goldman Sachs and other big banks profited enormously in three ways: one, they could buy other banks such as Lehman brothers and Washington Mutual for pennies on the dollar. Second, more heinously, Goldman Sachs and insiders such as John Paulson (who recently donated $400 million to Harvard) had made bets that these securities would blow up. Paulson made billions, and the media celebrated his acumen. (For an analogy, imagine the terrorists betting on 9/11 and profiting from it.) Third, to scrub salt in the wound, the big banks demanded a bailout from the very citizens whose lives the bankers had ruined! Bankers have chutzpah. In the U.S., they got hundreds of billions of dollars from the taxpayers and trillions from the Federal Reserve Bank which is nothing but a front group for the bankers.

In Greece, the domestic banks got more than $30 billion of bailout from the Greek people. Let that sink in for a moment – the supposedly irresponsible Greek government had to bail out the hardcore capitalist bankers.

Stage 3 is when the banks force the government to accept massive debts. For a biology metaphor, consider a virus or a bacteria. All of them have unique strategies to weaken the immune system of the host. One of the proven techniques used by the parasitic international bankers is to downgrade the bonds of a country. And that’s exactly what the bankers did, starting at the end of 2009. This immediately makes the interest rates (“yields”) on the bonds go up, making it more and more expensive for the country to borrow money or even just roll over the existing bonds.

From 2009 to mid 2010, the yields on 10-year Greek bonds almost tripled! This cruel financial assault brought the Greek government to its knees, and the banksters won their first debt deal of a whopping 110 billion Euros.

The banks also control the politics of nations. In 2011, when the Greek prime minister refused to accept a second massive bailout, the banks forced him out of the office and immediately replaced him with the Vice President of ECB (European Central Bank)! No elections needed. Screw democracy. And what would this new guy do? Sign on the dotted line of every paperwork that the bankers bring in.

(By the way, the very next day, the exact same thing happened in Italy where the Prime Minister resigned, only to be replaced by a banker/economist puppet. Ten days later, Spain had a premature election where a “technocrat” banker puppet won the election).

The puppet masters had the best month ever in November 2011.

Few months later, in 2012, the exact bond market manipulation was used when the banksters turned up the Greek bonds’ yields to 50%!!! This financial terrorism immediately had the desired effect: The Greek parliament agreed to a second massive bailout, even larger than the first one.

Now, here is another fact that most people don’t understand. The loans are not just simple loans like you would get from a credit card or a bank. These loans come with very special strings attached that demand privatization of a country’s assets. If you have seen Godfather III, you would remember Hyman Roth, the investor who was carving up Cuba among his friends. Replace Hyman Roth with Goldman Sachs or IMF (International Monetary Fund) or ECB, and you get the picture.

Stage 4: Now, the rape and humiliation of a nation begin. For the debt that was forced upon them, Greece had to sell many of its profitable assets to oligarchs and international corporations. And privatizations are ruthless, involving everything and anything that is profitable. In Greece, privatization included water, electricity, post offices, airport services, national banks, telecommunication, port authorities (which is huge in a country that is a world leader in shipping) etc.

In addition to that, the banker tyrants also get to dictate every single line item in the government’s budget. Want to cut military spending? NO! Want to raise tax on the oligarchs or big corporations? NO! Such micro-management is non-existent in any other creditor-debtor relationship.

So what happens after privatization and despotism under bankers? Of course, the government’s revenue goes down and the debt increases further. How do you “fix” that? Of course, cut spending! Lay off public workers, cut minimum wage, cut pensions (same as our social security), cut public services, and raise taxes on things that would affect the 99% but not the 1%. For example, pension has been cut in half and sales tax increase to more than 20%. All these measures have resulted in Greece going through a financial calamity that is worse than the Great Depression of the U.S. in the 1930s.

Of course, the ever-manipulative bankers demand immediate privatization of all media which means that the country now gets photogenic TV anchors who spew propaganda every day and tell the people that crooked and greedy banksters are saviors; and slavery under austerity is so much better than the alternative.

If every Greek person had known the truth about austerity, they wouldn’t have fallen for this. Same goes for Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland and other countries going through austerity.The sad aspect of all this is that these are not unique strategies. Since World War II, these predatory practices have been used countless times by the IMF and the World Bank in Latin America, Asia, and Africa.

This is the essence of the New World Order — a world owned by a handful of corporations and banks.

So, it’s time for the wonderful people of Greece to rise up like Zeus and say NO (“OXI” in Greece) to the greedy puppet masters, unpatriotic oligarchs, parasitic bankers and corrupt politicians.

Dear Greece, know that the world is praying for you. Vote NO to austerity. Say YES to freedom, independence, self-government, and democracy. Yes, democracy, the word that was invented by YOU!

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  #7 (permalink)
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Greece came to Brussels today without any new proposal
People voted no, Greek politicians might have a new proposal for tomorrow (not sure)

In a situation where banks are running out of their last cash in the next days,
sounds like there is still no sense of urgency or at the end nobody has any
clue how to get out of this mess

ECB decided not to increase ELA (emergency lending) ceiling and did a haircut on the collateral
decision which makes sense

result : end of meeting of the euro group

curious what the leaders will be talking about tonight...
as it seems the content is missing

for the time being, extended bank holiday

sounds all very destructive
as you now it only takes a fraction of forces to destroy, of what it takes to build up

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The European Union has 28 member states, out of which 19 use the Euro as their principal currency.

The annual budget of the European Union is about 110 billion Euros.

The current EZB lifeline for the Greek banks is 89 billion Euros (close to the annual budget of the European Union)


Greece is a comparatively rich country. Greeks have been spending more money than they were earning for decades.

Also Greece had published false accounts to become a member of the Euro area.


Please compare GDP per capita (source IMF 2014)

Greece 29,635
Estonia 25,049
Poland 23,275
Portugal 21,408
Latvia 21,381
Croatia 20,904
Malta 19,111
Hungary 13, 881
Turkey 10,815
Romania 10,034
Bulgaria 7,752


other neighbouring countries

Russia 8,694
Belorus 8,041
Ukraine 3,054



As you can see, Greeks are by far the richest nation in South-Eastern Europe.

Do you think that the poor countries are happy to participate in a bail out of the comparatively rich and lazy Greeks?

The Greek debt has already been cut by 60 billion Euros in 2012.


The current Greek government is arrogant and self-centered.

Neither current nor previous governments made serious attempts to improve collection of taxes.

During the last 3 years, rich Greek citizens have transferred about 22 billion Euros abroad.


Europe has more important tasks than to deal with 10 milllion comparatively rich citizens who think that they are at the center of the world.

Talking about Ukraine and Syria with millions of refugees who need our help.

The Greeks definitely do not need it and their arrogance in claiming help (they have been claiming of help for decades) is unrivalled.

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Fat Tails View Post

Also Greece had published false accounts to become a member of the Euro area.

I agree 100%. Can't find the link for it but this is fact. The EU is to blame for allowing Greece to join. Better due diligence.


Fat Tails View Post
Do you think that the poor countries are happy to participate in a bail out of the comparatively rich and lazy Greeks?

Rich? Like every country they have their 1%. Lazy? Not quite. Greeks work the most hours per capita per year than any country in Europe. Almost 50% more than your countrymen. Productivity is another story.

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

Sort by 2014 descending.


Fat Tails View Post
The current Greek government is arrogant and self-centered.

Because they stood up to the troika bullies? Because they would not agree to raising the VAT, cutting minimum wage and pensions while not raising corporate taxes? Because they actually have a democracy that is (sometimes) run by citizens instead of a mouthpiece for the banks and oligarchs to maintain the status quo? Because it actually seems like they want a better life for the majority of the citizens and not just the 1%?


Fat Tails View Post
During the last 3 years, rich Greek citizens have transferred about 22 billion Euros abroad.

Of course they did. They knew what was coming.

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Cronyism in new government


Minister of Tourism, Elena Kountara appointed her brother Nikos Kountara as her counselor. Nikos was already her counselor when Elena worked as a model.

Minister of Defense, Panos Kammenos appointed the daughter of Party spokeswoman Marina Chryssoveloni as his counselor.

Minister of Culture, Nikos Xyadakis appointed Panagiotis Douros, brother of Rena Dourou, leading Syriza party member and governor of Attika region as his office manager.

Brothers Evangelos and Giorgos Kalpadakis, both nephews of Nikos Voutsis, Minister of the Interior were appointed members of the diplomatic section of Mr. Tsipra.

Iphigenia Kamtsidou, spouse of Minister of Justice, Nikos Paraskevopoulos, was appointed chairwoman of the national center for public administration by the second minister for administrative reforms.

......

Getting tired writing this down.

Greece did not change at all.

There were no reforms.



Let the Greeks do whatever they want to do, as long as the taxpayers of the other European countries do not have to pay for it.


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