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When you hear some EU politicians speaking, you can read between the lines that the European state is exactly what they aspire to.
In their mind, clearly it's not going to happen in the next few years, but eventually.....
Quite a few of them described joining the Euro as an 'irreversible process' (which of course is nonsense given summer of 2015 Greece risked being ejected from the Eurozone).
So, wishful thinking. The problem, as you say, is that it would be highly impractical, to put it mildly. No head of state in their right frame of mind would even begin to consider giving up power to a centralized government and give up their state's sovereignty.
Also, there is a clash of cultures. Many EU states are neighbours and share borders, but when it comes to principles and values, they may vary considerably.
On the other hand, I see the Single Market as advantageous in terms of economic area which can best represent Europe's trade capability when facing the US, China and Russia, just to cite the major trading economic powers.
Returning to individual currencies could be a step in the wrong direction.
So, unless something catastrophic happens, I see it as a stalemate.
Really enjoyed his talk, thanks for posting the link. Possibly the first time I had a fleeting intellectual crush on a left-winger... and I will remain an admirer.
That is, apart from one small flaw - he's wrong.
I like his idea of using tax receipts to provide liquidity, 'only ones and zeroes' as we know, and it may well come to pass in some form, again. Sadly, history has shown multiple times across the centuries that giving a state control of the ones and zeroes in such a way is no better than giving a central bank control. Power always equals corruption, and absolute power always leads to absolute corruption, but then we all know that as well. Much more on the way I have no doubt.
His analysis of the negatively-valued good and the impossibility of removing politics from money is bang on, it is now the ultimate Gordian knot. Which is why I have to laugh at the certainty of the statisticians and quants who believe their equations will still be worth a jot when push actually comes to shove. There is no solution to an Aliceland universe, only an implosion at some point, so we just carry on dancing for now. As he says, a gold standard or a secure digital equivalent can't fix anything either, but what they can/could do is tell the truth.
I have just finished reading Yanis Varoufakis' book 'Adults In the Room : My battle with Europe's Deep Establishment' - I cannot recommend it highly enough.
I fully understand all the corruption on both sides but the troika never wanted a Greek Solution, only the salvation of French and German banks.
If page 447 doesn't take your breath away regarding real EU politics nothing will. Tempted to leave a spoiler but I won't, suffice it to say that Mad Hatter's tea party isn't remotely close.
Μπορεί νά είσαι καλός trader καί developer (καί αυτό στό αναγνωρίζω) αλλά δέν έχεις τό δικαίωμα νά βρίζεις δημόσια ξεδιάντροπα τούς Ελληνες (άρα καί μένα γιατί είμαι κι εγώ Ελληνας). Δέν ανέχομαι κάποιος σάν καί σέ σένα (Γερμανός) νά βρίζει τή χώρα μου καί εμάς τούς Ελληνες μόνο καί μόνο επειδή η χώρα μου έχει φορτωθεί ένα τεράστιο παράνομο, επονείδιστο καί απεχθές χρέος από κάποιους απατεώνες μέ σκοπό νά σωθούν οι γερμανικές καί οι γαλλικές τράπεζες. Φαίνεται ξέχασες ότι η ναζιστική χώρα σου αιματοκύλισε όλη τήν Ευρώπη σέ δύο Παγκόσμιους πολέμους μέ τόν Χίτλερ, αλλά , παρά ταύτα, τό 1953, τής χαρίσθηκαν πάνω από τό 50% τών χρεών της καί τό υπόλοιπο τών χρεών της συμφωνήθηκε τότε νά τό εξωφλήσει μέ ρήτρα ανάπτυξής, αλλά ακόμα δέν τό έχει εξωφλήσει (πρόςτήν Ελλάδα). Γιά παράδειγμα η Γερμανία χρωστάει στή χώρα μου πάνω από 1 τρισεκατομύρια ευρώ (αποζημιώσεις από τόν Α'Παγκόσμιο πόλεμο, πολεμικές επανορθώσεις από τόν Β' Παγκόσμιο πόλεμο, κατοχικά δάνεια πού αρπάξατε από τήν Ελλάδα τό 1941, τούς κλεμμένους αρχαιολογικούς θησαυρούς από τά Μουσεία μας, κλπ, κλπ). Καί όλο αυτό τό ποσόν αρνείσθε τώρα νά τό πληρώσετε στήν Ελλάδα. Ντροπή σας. Σκοτώσατε εκατομμύρια Ευρωπαίους, σκορπίσατε τόν θάνατο, τή δυστυχία καί τήν ερήμωση καί έρχεσαι εσύ (μέ τό θράσος χιλίων καρδιναλίων) νά βρίσεις τήν Ελλάδα καί τούς Ελληνες. Κανονικά, αφού χάσατε δύο Παγκοσμίους Πολέμους θά έπρεπε νά είχε διαμελισθεί σέ κομμάτια η Γερμανία πού νά τά μοιράζονταν οι νικήτριες δυνάμεις τού Β'Παγκοσμίου Πολέμου, οι δέ Γερμανοί νά είχαν πάει δούλοι στά διάφορα ευρωπαικά κράτη πού κατέστρεψαν καί νά δουλεύουν από τό πρωί μέχρι τό βράδυ γιά νά ξαναχτίσουν δωρεάν αυτά πού κατέστρεψαν μέ τίς ναζιστικές τούς βόμβες (χώρια τά εκατομμύρια τών νεκρών, τά κρεματόρια, οι εκτλέσεις αθώων ανθρώπων, τό ξεκοίλιασμα μικρών παιδιών, εγκύων γυναικών, κλπ κλπ). Αυτά τά ξέχασες ? Εμείς όμως δέν τά ξεχνάμε !! Ακόμα τό δικό μου σπίτι είναι γκρεμισμένο από φωτιά πού έβαλαν μέ θηριωδία οι βάρβαροι πρόγονοί σου.
Μάθε λοιπόν, απόγονε βαρβάρων ναζιστών (καί σύγχρονων οπαδών τού αιμοσταγούς Σόιμπλε καί τής ανθελληνικής παρέας του), ότι όταν εμείς κτίζαμε Παρθενώνες, άταν ανακαλύπταμε τίς Επιστήμες (Μαθηματικά, Αστρονομία, Φιλοσοφία, Τέχνες, κλπ), εσείς ζούσατε πάνω στά δένδρα βγάζοντας άναρθρες κραυγές σάν ζώα. Πρέπει νά σέβεσαι τούς δασκάλους σου. Διότι η Ελλάδα καί οι Ελληνες είναι οι δάσκαλοί σου, είναι η πηγή τής σοφίας, τού Πνεύματος καί τής Σοφίας. Ζήτα λοιπόν, ταπεινά συγνώμη γιά όσα είπες. Λυπάμαι, γιατί δέν είχα δεί πιό πρίν τό post σου πιό νωρίς γιά νά σού απαντήσω. Λυπάμαι επίσης πού τά Αγγλικά μου δέν είναι τόσο καλά , γι'αυτό αναγκάστηκα νά στά γράψω στά Ελληνικά. Τό γεγονός ότι είσαι από τούς πιό καλούς "παίκτες" σ'αυτό τό forum, δέν σέ δικαιολογεί νά βρίζεις έναν ολόκληρο λαό, τόν λαό μου. καί θεωρώ τιμή μου τήν απάντησή μου αυτή πρός εσένα. Εγώ πάντως, προσωπικά, δέν σού κρατώ κακία γιά όσα ανόητα υβριστικά ξεστόμισες. -
I am not good at reading Greek, but I managed to understand what you have written. I agree with what you said about Nazi Germany and share your views. My ancestors did not participate in that war, but were refugees themselves and had their homes destroyed. You hold me personally responsible for something that neither me nor my ancestors have done. This would be a long discussion, but it probably does not belong here.
I am also a great admirer of Greek philosophy and culture and have been travelling to Greece several times. Further I do not want to insult the Greek people. I have a few friends from Greece and value them highly.
The point that I wanted to make is that Greece is a comparatively rich country, when compared to other countries in Central and Eastern Europe. It is pretty easy to blame German and French banks for having lent money to Greece. The main point is that the richer Greeks have transferred their money offshore in order not to pay taxes. Tax evasion is a national sport in Greece.
The Greek deficit has mainly been caused by overspending and tax evasion, which is estimated at around 24% of GDP. This is amongst the highest levels world wide. I believe that the Greek deficit is fixed once the rich start paying taxing instead of channelling their gains offshore.
Please find attached a VAT GAP report from September 2016 published by the European Union. You will notice that about half of the EU countries have a VAT gap below 10.4%. Both Italy and Greece have a VAT gap of about 28%, which shows the extent to which taxes are not being paid.
For income tax Greece is suffering from the tax avoidance skills of the self-employed. A study finds that "in Greece, the percentage of the self-employed is twice as high as the European average. According to studies, the self-employed hide around 57-58.6% of their income, while salaried workers are only able to hide about 0.5-1%."
I can give you a very good example which i know from first hand. I had customers in Greece and i traveled many times to Greece, so i think i know a little bit the country and the culture.
On one of my trips, i had noticed it several times, but at that point in time my curiosity was too high. You often see in Greece houses with metal (supposed to be in compound) peeking out of the building (typical the roof). I asked one of my local partners there, what was that reason..
He explained it very briefly : "if you build a home, then you pay the VAT on the home when it's finished, so many houses, are 'never' finished the metals are a sign of that there is still a part to come... and that consequently the VAT is not yet due..
In most of all the other EU countries, you pay VAT on every part, and consequently every partly invoice, you can build 100 years, but you will pay VAT pro rata the progress...
just one example, as @Fat Tails mentioned, national sport..
can't blame the people, the system was made for it..
we all would do the same...
Of course, that has derailed the finances of the country, with all known consequences.
Unfair that the rest of European people need to pick up (part of) the bill for that
The raw translation from Greek to English using Google Translate is perfectly acceptable.
Leaving emotion outside, we should all remember that following the first major war disaster, the Versailles Treaty reparations imposed on Germany were responsible for her descent info fascism, and eventually the rise of the Nazis in the first place.
Following on from the aftermath of the second world war, in 1953 under the London Debt Agreement, Germany then had 50% of all her debts written off, the remainder stretched over 30 years, and only to be paid in years of a trade surplus at a maximum rate of 3% - just the sort of outcome Varoufakis argued for all along.
How unfortunate then that all the puppet masters of Europe refused to even consider the same sort of option for Greece, one that had been instrumental in setting the scene for a six decade manufacturing powerhouse to be created. And from an institution whose main reason for existence was to prevent such conditions ever transpiring again; how deeply, deeply ironic.
None of us come from countries that are innocent in all our histories - be it sovereign empires, landowners, banking families, dynasties, magnates or arms manufacturers. Corruption is endemic in all societies, it simply takes different forms of sophistication and violence against people in less protected strata.
I urge anybody who wants a fuller picture of the Greek situation in particular to keep an open mind and read Yanis Varoufakis' book, he is equally critical of all parties involved.
Let us keep the flags of respect, rather than jumping in herds that are always aided and abetted by our innate ability to forget history when convenient.
Your reply is B.S. You try, unsuccessfully, to turn the black to white. You iINSAULTED ME AND MY PEOPLE. You didnt even said any "sorry" or any "apology".
Specifically :
1) As I said you, Germany owns, today, to Greece more than 1 TRILLION euros as idemnifications from :
a) the damages and general catastrophy that Greece suffered from your nazist people during the second World War
and the assasination of more than 1 million Greeks during this war that German nazists started against Europe and
Greece. Your people killed my father and executed many of my relatives in the Greek village "Kalavrita". This is
History. You cannot change it.
b) the money and the total Greek gold that your nazist people (Hitler, etc.) robbed from the Bank of Greece. This is
History.
c) the damages during the first WW. This is History.
d) the damages and value from the stealing of our vast archeological treasures from our Museums that your people committed againt my country.
2) The idemnification from the assasination of 1 million Greeks that Germans killed in my country (during the 2nd WW).
Really, how much "costs" one person's life ? You said that you paid 4.000 euros for Greece. You paid NOTHING. Have you considered how much you owe me because your ancestors (maybe yr father, who knows...) killed my father ? somebody from your people is responsible for the assasination of my father, but , anyway, you now must idemnify me; and you know how much ? 10 trillion euros . This is the price I ask for my father. Pay me now !
For the said amount that you owe to Greece there are many Greek official papers and official claims (from Greek authorities and Greek Parliament) that have been sent to you goverment. But Germany denies to pay Greece. Why ? Because this is what he wants so ! All these attachments of your reply is B.S. I can show you other papers showing the opposite elements. EU is B.S. EU is German colony.
Germany tries to conquer Europe imposing finacial dictatorship to European countries. Brittish understood this and got out of EU. And they did very well. And the same will do Greece, shortly.
The bottom line : Are you going to pay the 1 TRILLION euros you owe to Greece or not? I already asked you but you escaped from answering. The reason? You dont want to pay. And, in addition, you (personally) move your finger to Greek people and insulted my people by saying that "Greeks are ... lazy !". Pay first Greece, and, after, ask Greece to pay this illegal debt that actually saved German and French banks.
3) In 1953 the winner countries (among them was Greece Greece) of the 2nd WW agreed to delete more than 50% of the Germany's debt and the rest of this debt to be paid after Germany's economic growth (by 5% for 10 consecutive yeras, if I remember well) andafter reunion of West and East Germany. The winner countries(including my destried country, Greece) were very magnanimus and extremely tolerant to Germany, a country of nasists barbarians, who spread death to millions of European people, brought the disaster to other peaceful European countries , killed million people to crematoriums ( Greeks, Jews, Serbians, Polands, French, etc..) in Aousvitch, and other ... "Hotels of Death".
Do you remember that ? Do I have to send you videos and photografs of these crimes to refresh yr memory ??
Greece agreed at that time (1953) to this extremely beneficial (to Germany) aggrement and deleted more than 50% of the total Germany's debt. Because of that Greece's aggreement Germany developed afterwards it's economy and stood in his feet. But, now, Germany, refuses to make the same to Greece and at the same time tries again to conquer the rest of Europe with his economic weapons. What, Germany, did not succeeded to conquer with the power of his arms (during the 2ng WW), tries to conquer with his economic power in recent days.
But if Germany pays what ows to Greece (>1 TRILLION euros) will automatically collapse.
So, pay NOW 1 trillion euros to Greece, and then Greece will pay its debt. If you dont pay us you will get NOTHING. The rest will be discussed in International Courts.
4) You (personally) try to gain some sympathy from the audience of this forum, by saying that you have friends in Greece, that you did not insulted Greek people (on the contrary : YOU INSAULTED ME AND MY PEOPLE by calling us "lazy", etc.), that your ancestors did nothing bad during the 2nd WW (who believes that ? there is no evidence of that ), and other blah blah and excuses. It's the same/common "story" from people who want us to forgive and forget the criminal actions of your country against the humanity.
Germany committed genocides of many European countries (Greeks, Jews, Polands, Serrbians, etc). As I said you, since Germany lost TWO World Wars (for which was the only responsible) it should have been divided to small land pieces, and all the winner countries (including Greece) should have taken a German piece of land, and the defeated Germans should have been guided as slaves to every country in order to work (without money) from the morning until the night in order to rebuild what their nazist bombs destroyed during the 2nd WW and until they pay their debts.
This should have been done and pay fot the catastrophy, disasters and assasinations they committed to million of innocent European people.
That said, you dont have any right to speak about Greece and not to move yr finger to my people. I hope I made my self clear. --
