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$5,000,000 account earning $3000 to $5,000 daily. is it possible?
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$5,000,000 account earning $3000 to $5,000 daily. is it possible?

  #131 (permalink)
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Okay, I'll explain...

"you own BRK.. great... now, would that be class A or B? just curious...never met anyone that would brag about owning BRK.A/B that actually had it.. not saying you dont btw.. just that those that I know do, keep it quiet because it usually means a good junk of their portfolio and they do it as a value play for their long, long, long term side..."

BRK'A from before there where B shares because I had the view then then that I still hold today...there is nobody better on the value side than Buffett.

BRK'B from when the shelf came off of the initial offering since I didn't have to invest like $75,000 each time.

Why in the world would someone not want to admit to owning BRK...even now when their chairman seems to have lost his mind, failed to understand basic tax law, and miscalculated simple math? Acting a fool for the purpouse of smootching the hinny of a politician definetly gets you the rank of tool.

So the essence of the comment stating that I owned BRK was to illustrate that in spite of his foolish comments I still have enough faith in Buffet, the tool, to leave money in his care.

I can't break it down to simpler terms.

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  #132 (permalink)
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thanks for the comments and the explanation...

please note... I didnt say that the guys I know that own BRK.A/B were not interested on admiting it, but that they had no interest on bragging about it... those are two different things.


wldman View Post
"you own BRK.. great... now, would that be class A or B? just curious...never met anyone that would brag about owning BRK.A/B that actually had it.. not saying you dont btw.. just that those that I know do, keep it quiet because it usually means a good junk of their portfolio and they do it as a value play for their long, long, long term side..."

BRK'A from before there where B shares because I had the view then then that I still hold today...there is nobody better on the value side than Buffett.

BRK'B from when the shelf came off of the initial offering since I didn't have to invest like $75,000 each time.

Why in the world would someone not want to admit to owning BRK...even now when their chairman seems to have lost his mind, failed to understand basic tax law, and miscalculated simple math? Acting a fool for the purpouse of smootching the hinny of a politician definetly gets you the rank of tool.

So the essence of the comment stating that I owned BRK was to illustrate that in spite of his foolish comments I still have enough faith in Buffet, the tool, to leave money in his care.

I can't break it down to simpler terms.


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  #133 (permalink)
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Right...


two different things. I said that I ownned more BRK than any other equity as a reference point on the topic of Mr. Buffet being a tool. In that context I was making a relative point that while I agreed with the notion of Buffet being a tool, I did not let that discredit him to the point where I would sell his company. (but I'm close)

So I was not arrogant and my language was matter of fact not boastful. You are the one that asked a specific question about BRK'A or BRK'B and sort of implied that I was not being truthful. Now you want to school me on the semantics of what you meant to imply? I realize that the forum is kind of a fantasy land for some...NOT you specifically...and I just think guys should think about what they type and how it communicates (self included)

For instance in the general chat kronie posted that today could be blamed on the tea baggers. What is a tea bagger? What do tea baggers have to do with anything that happened today? What happend today that needs kronies assesment to the point of laying blame with someone other than himself?

See I think guys just type stuff because they can get away with it and it happens in here all the time. I can choose between two responeses. First, I can try to make guys accountable and hope they will be or go away. Second I can just ignore people. The problem with that is that the threads that do have value lose their continuity when half the members are ignored. Third...I guess I could just go away.

Anyway...trade well. DB

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  #134 (permalink)
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wldman View Post
two different things. I said that I ownned more BRK than any other equity as a reference point on the topic of Mr. Buffet being a tool. In that context I was making a relative point that while I agreed with the notion of Buffet being a tool, I did not let that discredit him to the point where I would sell his company. (but I'm close)

So I was not arrogant and my language was matter of fact not boastful. You are the one that asked a specific question about BRK'A or BRK'B and sort of implied that I was not being truthful. Now you want to school me on the semantics of what you meant to imply? I realize that the forum is kind of a fantasy land for some...NOT you specifically...and I just think guys should think about what they type and how it communicates (self included)

For instance in the general chat kronie posted that today could be blamed on the tea baggers. What is a tea bagger? What do tea baggers have to do with anything that happened today? What happend today that needs kronies assesment to the point of laying blame with someone other than himself?

See I think guys just type stuff because they can get away with it and it happens in here all the time. I can choose between two responeses. First, I can try to make guys accountable and hope they will be or go away. Second I can just ignore people. The problem with that is that the threads that do have value lose their continuity when half the members are ignored. Third...I guess I could just go away.

Anyway...trade well. DB

I will acknowledge that my understanding of your statement was amiss, but please note that i specifically said that I didnt think that you were untruthful, but rather that your attitude if an owner was contrary to what i had experienced and hence I wanted to understand your position better (and when i mean position,I mean which issues you owned)... we are merely exchanging thoughts and opinions and in the process, learning.. that is how I see.. I dont take offense, and I hope you dont take any as well... I welcome the feedback in any event.

as to the rest of your statements..

I concur with your assessment about holding people accountable, there are many times that some might try to raise arguments that go nowhere and are meaningless... and I say that because half the time i think people just post to gain points or something... anyhow..

I read @chronie's statement on the chat, and by virtue of that statement, I can basically discard it as believable... my assessment based on the statement that @ BAC under $5 is a sell for institutions is that this is someone who has no clue about what institutions care about, and speaks based on what he/she believes to be true as if it was fact... when it isnt... C traded lower than $5 for years.. it created great opportunities for rebate trading.. and btw, it is owned (just like BAC) close to 60% by institutions..

what BAC needs to do is stop their div(if they havent already) and use those funds to buy back stock.. and certainly avoid the reverse split, unless they want to trade even lower...

I also dont know what a teabagger is, but from the dictionary lookup I just did, and the urban dict, I couldnt really get what he was referring to neither... so if you thought i was at a lost of the whole tool thing, this one has be even more baffled..

trade well...

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  #135 (permalink)
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I hope no one minds if I bring this back to the original topic because it's relevant for me. I am in the OP's position and will give you a little background. I was a NYMEX floor trader in the 80s and left to finish school. Got married, had kids, got a car that fits a car seat, and moved to DC and worked for the Feds for 15 years. Now living in Dubai until next year and am getting back into trading. Money is parked at an investment bank.

Fortunately, a good friend recommended Big Mike's and has taught me some technical analysis. I've been reading and learning a lot here (thank you all for your posts). I plan to eventually move my money into an account that I'll manage. My strategy is to start small, become re-acquainted with the markets, learn the software and build a diversified portfolio of high-yielding stocks, using options for income and hedging. It's been okay so far. That's the long-term portfolio/income side of my equation.

Since I am fairly risk averse, I was exclusively a spread trader at NYMEX. On the floor, it was possible to make money legging in and out of spreads, which brings me to the trading side of my equation. I'm trying to learn to trade electronically, inter-commodity spreads and right now I'm watching GC/PL and HO/RB. Looking at short-term and maybe intraday trades. Electronic trading is a new world for me and, yes, I know how quickly an account can evaporate, so I'm treading carefully and continuing with paper trading.

I've opened accounts at IB and Ameritrade (yesterday) and I've been testing NinjaTrader and Multicharts, as well as trials for Metastock, Optionvue, Valueline (all of which I've used before), but haven't bought anything yet. NT wasn't particularly helpful in creating inter-commodity spreads, and while I like MC, I can't get it to sync with the prices I see on IB, which will chart them, but won't seem to allow me to run studies. I haven't explored TOS yet, but the user interface at least seems more intuitive than IB.

I could go on, but I'll spare you and try and focus on things I haven't yet found solid answers on:
  • Does the portfolio side seem like a reasonable strategy? I've seen what the investment banks do and I know I could do the same thing with IB's basket trader--without the 1% mgmt fee. I'm not crazy about the yield on bonds, so I'm looking at good yields on stocks that have potential to appreciate. This is for long-held positions, perhaps 3-5 years or more. Any additional ideas for expanding my long-term horizons? For example, I hadn't considered BRK, which sounds interesting.
  • Any recommendations on technical analysis of inter-commodity spreads? Which software and how to analyze them. I am not a good technical analyst and can't seem to get my head around even a basic approach. I've read and am re-reading Murphy's book, but still...
  • I'm not one of those looking for the magic indicator that will automatically let me start making money and I'm willing to put in the work and take the time to figure things out.
Thanks

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  #136 (permalink)
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tandreasian View Post
...

Since I am fairly risk averse, I was exclusively a spread trader at NYMEX. ..
I've opened accounts at IB and Ameritrade (yesterday) and I've been testing NinjaTrader and Multicharts, as well as trials for Metastock, Optionvue, Valueline (all of which I've used before), but haven't bought anything yet. NT wasn't particularly helpful in creating inter-commodity spreads

Thanks

sierrachart uses ib feed and I think it handle spread better than NT, jmho.

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  #137 (permalink)
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Sysot1t

Thanks for clearing that up. Trade well.

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  #138 (permalink)
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tandreasian...

Two items that might be of value to you from my perspective.

First, this particular thread is kind of stale in my opinion. Your inquiry probably deserves it's own thread as I suspect most that would offer helpful advice to you are not tuned in here anymore.

Second, My current opinion on BRK is that they are better prepared to both identify the best value plays and negotiate preferred deals that I can not. Their management track record is in my opinion proven and reliable.

Also, Wave 59 does allow mathamatical expressions in their quote window. So if you where setting up a spread or a ratioed spread between two products you could do that easily through the quote window. The "basket" route is also interesting to me. All the best and happy trading. DB

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  #139 (permalink)
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@tandreasian

A couple of other books on intermarket analysis:

Amazon.com: Intermarket Trading Strategies (Wiley Trading) (9780470758106): Markos Katsanos: Books (credit goes to @sysot1t)

Amazon.com: Currency Trading and Intermarket Analysis: How to Profit from the Shifting Currents in Global Markets (Wiley Trading) (9780470226230): Ashraf Ladi: Books

That being said, the intermarket relationships in the times ahead might not be that easily deciphered, but that will, of course, also lead to big opportunities.

As for portfolio trading software. Mechanica supposedly very good. Tradestation bought Portfolio Maestro last year and will release a new version in not too long. Amibroker might be worth checking out.

The cheapest alternative for a decent spreading platform is CTS T4, and the next step would be CQG IC or X_Trader. Both offers autospreaders. It seems that there will be a webinar here about the latter in not too long.

But from what you describe, it might be worth to look into RTS' RTD Trader, ORC or REDIPlus. They will all support all of your needs in one platform. As would Bloomberg. All of these are in a different price league, but I thought I'd mention them anyway.

I don't know what your knowledge of portfolio trading is, and I don't want to offend you, but I found this book to be a good introduction for a layman like myself:

Amazon.com: The Intelligent Asset Allocator: How to Build Your Portfolio to Maximize Returns and Minimize Risk (0639785323259): William Bernstein: Books

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  #140 (permalink)
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tandreasian View Post
I hope no one minds if I bring this back to the original topic because it's relevant for me. I am in the OP's position and will give you a little background. I was a NYMEX floor trader in the 80s and left to finish school. Got married, had kids, got a car that fits a car seat, and moved to DC and worked for the Feds for 15 years. Now living in Dubai until next year and am getting back into trading. Money is parked at an investment bank.

I always wanted to live in Dubai, HK and TOK are my other options... I am envious..


tandreasian View Post
Fortunately, a good friend recommended Big Mike's and has taught me some technical analysis. I've been reading and learning a lot here (thank you all for your posts). I plan to eventually move my money into an account that I'll manage. My strategy is to start small, become re-acquainted with the markets, learn the software and build a diversified portfolio of high-yielding stocks, using options for income and hedging. It's been okay so far. That's the long-term portfolio/income side of my equation.
.

ok, right path thus far...


tandreasian View Post
Since I am fairly risk averse, I was exclusively a spread trader at NYMEX. On the floor, it was possible to make money legging in and out of spreads, which brings me to the trading side of my equation. I'm trying to learn to trade electronically, inter-commodity spreads and right now I'm watching GC/PL and HO/RB. Looking at short-term and maybe intraday trades. Electronic trading is a new world for me and, yes, I know how quickly an account can evaporate, so I'm treading carefully and continuing with paper trading.
.

hmmm... my opinion.. spreads still more than work.. that is what I trade... well, a bastardized version...

the spreads you picked I havent done... I dont think PL has enough volume, at least IMO. Look at index spreads instead, you might be surprised... I only do intraday spreads, I dont hold anything long term.. for long term I use options..

if you are fairly risk averse... you should stick only to options and spreads.. nothing more I would say.,..


tandreasian View Post
I've opened accounts at IB and Ameritrade (yesterday) and I've been testing NinjaTrader and Multicharts, as well as trials for Metastock, Optionvue, Valueline (all of which I've used before), but haven't bought anything yet. NT wasn't particularly helpful in creating inter-commodity spreads, and while I like MC, I can't get it to sync with the prices I see on IB, which will chart them, but won't seem to allow me to run studies. I haven't explored TOS yet, but the user interface at least seems more intuitive than IB.
.

if you are trading options, TOS(AMTD) is fine... anything else, caveat emptor... the acquisition by AMTD made TOS worse IMO..a shame... AMTD buys stuff and quality goes down.. same thing happen when they bought Datek..


tandreasian View Post
I could go on, but I'll spare you and try and focus on things I haven't yet found solid answers on:
  • Does the portfolio side seem like a reasonable strategy? I've seen what the investment banks do and I know I could do the same thing with IB's basket trader--without the 1% mgmt fee. I'm not crazy about the yield on bonds, so I'm looking at good yields on stocks that have potential to appreciate. This is for long-held positions, perhaps 3-5 years or more. Any additional ideas for expanding my long-term horizons? For example, I hadn't considered BRK, which sounds interesting.
.

BRK's are expensive... and there is no "yield".. anyhow.. I rather do options on something more accessible.. use IB for your portfolio mgmt, margin is perfect if you leverage..


tandreasian View Post
  • Any recommendations on technical analysis of inter-commodity spreads? Which software and how to analyze them. I am not a good technical analyst and can't seem to get my head around even a basic approach. I've read and am re-reading Murphy's book, but still...

CQGIC... that is your best bet... not cheap @ $1000 a month for standard trading and a few other things, you dont need the spreader right away.. with spreader and all, it will be around $2K..

you can try doing the spreads with MC or NT7 if they support custom instruments, I dont recall off the top of my head... MarketDelta allows custom instruments, and creates some spreads, but when compared to CQGIC, it was a bit off...


tandreasian View Post
  • I'm not one of those looking for the magic indicator that will automatically let me start making money and I'm willing to put in the work and take the time to figure things out.
Thanks

what do you mean?! that strategy I bought wont let me figure things out?!

welcome to the few...

trade well... and prosper... (my own twist on @wldman's signature... a la spock )

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