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Is the DOM useless?
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Is the DOM useless?

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Is the DOM useless?

After studying it for some time, it seems the majority of the action on the DOM is manipulated. Fake walls, orders being retracted, flash orders etc. It makes sense though. If you were a large institution, placing your entire order visible on the DOM would be like flashing your hand in poker. Not smart.

Anyways what do you think guys? Any value at all in paying attention to it? Would love to hear some input.

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
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PeterOhlson View Post
After studying it for some time, it seems the majority of the action on the DOM is manipulated. Fake walls, orders being retracted, flash orders etc. It makes sense though. If you were a large institution, placing your entire order visible on the DOM would be like flashing your hand in poker. Not smart.

Anyways what do you think guys? Any value at all in paying attention to it? Would love to hear some input.

I agree with you, furthermore it's utility is negatively correlated with time-frame. Even if you're scalping, (for the reasons you've enumerated), it's value is questionable. The the "big boys" are there to fool you, whether it's Goldman or Rotter, they are going to make it seem like it ain't - so why fall prey to their machinations and manipulation?

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  #4 (permalink)
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I like it for watching momentum flow but it can misleading.
I don't use it to trade, personally.

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  #5 (permalink)
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PeterOhlson View Post
After studying it for some time, it seems the majority of the action on the DOM is manipulated. Fake walls, orders being retracted, flash orders etc. It makes sense though. If you were a large institution, placing your entire order visible on the DOM would be like flashing your hand in poker. Not smart.

Anyways what do you think guys? Any value at all in paying attention to it? Would love to hear some input.


I watched it for a long long time. What I finally realized is that it took my attention away from what I really should have been watching. It is hypnotic, and at certain points I maybe believed I could somewhat "read" it. But I eliminated it from my screens entirely and my trading is better because of that.

Professional level DOMs (no, not Ninja Trader or MultiCharts or Tradestation) actually have settings for "iceberg" orders, where they only show the "tip" but there is a large volume underneath. But even if you could see every real order, how does that help you see who is sitting there ready to hit the mouse? Electronic orders are fast enough to swamp you.

Spend your time studying volume and you will most likely do better.

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  #6 (permalink)
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PeterOhlson View Post
After studying it for some time, it seems the majority of the action on the DOM is manipulated. Fake walls, orders being retracted, flash orders etc. It makes sense though. If you were a large institution, placing your entire order visible on the DOM would be like flashing your hand in poker. Not smart.

Anyways what do you think guys? Any value at all in paying attention to it? Would love to hear some input.


The question you should be asking yourself is "why is it being manipulated?"

The fact is that this manipulation takes time & effort. It would only be worth that time and effort if the manipulators got some benefit from the manipulation.

So - the answer is in the question. Yes, it is useful for spotting manipulation and getting on the side of the manipulators.

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  #7 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
The question you should be asking yourself is "why is it being manipulated?"

The fact is that this manipulation takes time & effort. It would only be worth that time and effort if the manipulators got some benefit from the manipulation.

So - the answer is in the question. Yes, it is useful for spotting manipulation and getting on the side of the manipulators.

I agree. And I do in fact use it the way you explain, that is for spotting manipulation. Fake walls for example, is a good signal I act on. Because 90% of the time the wall will dissappear once price reaches it, and whomever responsible for it will squeeze out the suckers who acted on it.

Anyways, guess I should've named the thread "Is the DOM useless for it's actual intent".


GaryD View Post
I watched it for a long long time. What I finally realized is that it took my attention away from what I really should have been watching. It is hypnotic, and at certain points I maybe believed I could somewhat "read" it. But I eliminated it from my screens entirely and my trading is better because of that.

Professional level DOMs (no, not Ninja Trader or MultiCharts or Tradestation) actually have settings for "iceberg" orders, where they only show the "tip" but there is a large volume underneath. But even if you could see every real order, how does that help you see who is sitting there ready to hit the mouse? Electronic orders are fast enough to swamp you.

Spend your time studying volume and you will most likely do better.

Would you mind explaining more about "professional level DOMs"? How can it spot an entire iceberg from just the tip?

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  #8 (permalink)
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pretty much, might be able to find it out of sync at night when there is low liquidity. orders move so fast during the day its nearly impossible to have any real advantage as a human.

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  #9 (permalink)
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You need to know your place in the pecking order..All of us here are nobody/peons that are just in the way. "Manipulation" is just strategy by large amounts of capital to not get gamed by other large amounts of capital. If you think you can see this, you are seeing patterns in clouds.

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  #10 (permalink)
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I trade the CL opening using only the DOM, T&S and a simple chart. I pay little attention to the numbers on the screen, although sometimes you can pick up something useful. I sort of feel the "rhythm", though...

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