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Frustrated, suckers game?
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Frustrated, suckers game?

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Frustrated, suckers game?

Hey guys, is anyone here consistenly week on week profitable? This several year journey has led me to believe that trading is a suckers game where the brokers are the guys who make the money off fees and the big dogs who can move their sizeable positions around. If I stick with this it seems I will be forever in search of a system......

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  #2 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
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DiemTrader View Post
Hey guys, is anyone here consistenly week on week profitable? This several year journey has led me to believe that trading is a suckers game where the brokers are the guys who make the money off fees and the big dogs who can move their sizeable positions around. If I stick with this it seems I will be forever in search of a system......

Your problem is discipline then. If you have been trading as long as you say, and you are not making money, then it is not your entries that are the problem, but your exits. (in my opinion)

The cure?

Quit trading, or start with more capital and trade smaller.

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  #3 (permalink)
Big game hunter
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DiemTrader View Post
I will be forever in search of a system......

Thats it right there . Stop searching . I was in the same boat and while I still make mistakes I win more than I lose . Stop searching for a system and forget all about how to exploit the market and just watch the market . Watch it everyday for months without placing trades . Watch only 1 market and just sit there and watch it move and take notes as to what happens when price turns or lays there without moving , just watch price , how big is the size involved and how many contracts turn over in whatever timeframe you like ( and I suggest a big one like more than 5 or 10 min ) . Good luck and take yourself into consideration . You might wreck your family and yourself and still never get past square 1 , sorry but thats reality .

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  #4 (permalink)
Just a boy
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DiemTrader View Post
Hey guys, is anyone here consistenly week on week profitable? This several year journey has led me to believe that trading is a suckers game where the brokers are the guys who make the money off fees and the big dogs who can move their sizeable positions around. If I stick with this it seems I will be forever in search of a system......

Big Mike : feel free to edit my response if you would rather I not refer to a site out of futures.io (formerly BMT).

DiemTrader: assuming Mike is happy with my response, have a look at ProTraderEd's blog (ProTrader Ed) For no other reason than to show you a professional trader who posts his trades every day and he is definitely profitable week in week out (damn near profitable daily). I know his trades are real as I have been on sites that he has moderated and communicated with him.
He uses the BlueWave indicators which Big Mike has had some exposure to.

PLEASE understand I am not advocating his method or promoting his teaching, I just wanted to give you the evidence that it can be done. I know seeing Ed's profit each day certainly motivates me to continue to dedicate the 60 hours a week that I am leading up to trading live rather than on SIM.

Good Luck

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  #5 (permalink)
Just starting out...
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When I started trading, 5 months ago, this is what I was doing:

1. Endless search for an indicator that will prompt entry and exit signals
2. Created a Money management plan and did not stick with it
3. Blamed myself for making bad trades
4. Can feel my heart beating while watching the PnL going up or down

I felt the same way... "You will never profit trading, it is all a setup" - almost gave up.

Where am I standing today?

1. Switched to Automated Trading
2. Using only one indicator
3. Money management implemented into strategy
4. No mental impact if I loss $2,000 in one day (happened recently)

I am relatively new to trading and I can say I been profiting week to week. I truly understand the benefit for money management during my constant strategy development. So my advice to you, coming from a newbie, begin developing an automated strategy. Something discretionary trading will not teach.

Frostbyte

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  #6 (permalink)
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trade2win View Post
Your problem is discipline then. If you have been trading as long as you say, and you are not making money, then it is not your entries that are the problem, but your exits. (in my opinion)

The cure?

Quit trading, or start with more capital and trade smaller.

Guys, let me fist say some good replies. Thanks for the help and input. A dialog may help me figure out my next step.

T2W. I agree discipline is key. By a losing trading plan/strategy/system is a loser.
No amount of discipline is going to fix a system that can't produce consistent expectancy and R mulitple, etc. I understand what you are saying, but at this point I have enough rules when I come up with a trading plan to be disciplined. I can stick to them. I need to have a certain level of confidence in the stastics of the trading plan and system.

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  #7 (permalink)
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Eric j View Post
Thats it right there . Stop searching . I was in the same boat and while I still make mistakes I win more than I lose . Stop searching for a system and forget all about how to exploit the market and just watch the market . Watch it everyday for months without placing trades . Watch only 1 market and just sit there and watch it move and take notes as to what happens when price turns or lays there without moving , just watch price , how big is the size involved and how many contracts turn over in whatever timeframe you like ( and I suggest a big one like more than 5 or 10 min ) . Good luck and take yourself into consideration . You might wreck your family and yourself and still never get past square 1 , sorry but thats reality .

Screen time is definately key. I continue to do this. I just feel there is a next step after gain the market knowledge with screen time. I need something with more structure a.k.a. a trading plan to exploit what I've seen.

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  #8 (permalink)
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steve2222 View Post
Big Mike : feel free to edit my response if you would rather I not refer to a site out of futures.io (formerly BMT).

DiemTrader: assuming Mike is happy with my response, have a look at ProTraderEd's blog (ProTrader Ed) For no other reason than to show you a professional trader who posts his trades every day and he is definitely profitable week in week out (damn near profitable daily). I know his trades are real as I have been on sites that he has moderated and communicated with him.
He uses the BlueWave indicators which Big Mike has had some exposure to.

PLEASE understand I am not advocating his method or promoting his teaching, I just wanted to give you the evidence that it can be done. I know seeing Ed's profit each day certainly motivates me to continue to dedicate the 60 hours a week that I am leading up to trading live rather than on SIM.

Good Luck


Thanks Steve! I need some evidence right now. I am always a fan of emulating success! While I have been live for quite some time I need the motivation to continue to invest time and money in this journey. Thanks!

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  #9 (permalink)
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frostbyte View Post
When I started trading, 5 months ago, this is what I was doing:

1. Endless search for an indicator that will prompt entry and exit signals
2. Created a Money management plan and did not stick with it
3. Blamed myself for making bad trades
4. Can feel my heart beating while watching the PnL going up or down

I felt the same way... "You will never profit trading, it is all a setup" - almost gave up.

Where am I standing today?

1. Switched to Automated Trading
2. Using only one indicator
3. Money management implemented into strategy
4. No mental impact if I loss $2,000 in one day (happened recently)

I am relatively new to trading and I can say I been profiting week to week. I truly understand the benefit for money management during my constant strategy development. So my advice to you, coming from a newbie, begin developing an automated strategy. Something discretionary trading will not teach.

Frostbyte

Thanks Frostbyte! I like automated trading for the reasons you mention.

I would love to hear how this goes for you. If the big firms are willing to spend lots of funds on automated trading I'm sure it works!

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  #10 (permalink)
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DiemTrader,

You can be successful at this. Simplify. Which way is price moving?
Take a look at this template. This is not a moving average crossover system. It is a direction and strength monitor. Watch this for a week on your given time frame (try 5 minute). Take a look at the red line (40ema) consider taking trades only with this. Above for longs below for shorts but in the context of the whole wave. Really play with this setup but do not change it. Zoom it all the way out/ zoom it all the way in. This wave repeats over and over on any time frame. It is the rhythm of the market. If you look at it and can't feel a direction then don't trade. If you can see a clear direction put on a trade. Use the swing pivots and candle top and bottoms as a guide to show possible very short term Support and resistance. Use the wave flipping over. Use the expansion contraction of the wave. This is the flow of the market. Watch the white dots which are close prices. Are they expanding away from each other or are they congested. I personally find candle sticks distracting. I recommend you don't use them as a direction tool but rather showing the local range of the market.

This is really all you need to look at. All the oscillators and overbought oversold indicators just really show this. I am a visual person and this works for me. Settle on this and tell yourself that you have no other options. This is "the view" of the market you have. You can zoom or pan but this is it. Stop searching. You found it. Now practice trying to take a piece of it.

note:
There is nothing magical about the wave or the 40ema. Many professional traders use the most common emas of 200, 100, 50, 20. They are all in this. The 40 takes the bulk of most market moves. If your stop loss is usually 10 pips then set the lines on your chart to be this.
Good luck.

As you look at the "big" wave also note the sections the 40ema segments. It is just a smaller echo of the big wave. Wave inside a wave inside a wave. Think about when you see a white dot that is extended to a point off the smaller wave. These are trapped traders.

Read more on cycles here. Cunparis does an excellent job explaining.
https://futures.io/elite-circle/1230-market-cycles-fun-profit-4.html#post16062


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Last edited by websouth; November 23rd, 2009 at 12:41 PM.
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