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Isn't this good enough? (Beginner futures trading)
Started:July 20th, 2011 (07:59 PM) by Ravanous Views / Replies:5,267 / 23
Last Reply:November 7th, 2011 (06:35 PM) Attachments:0

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Isn't this good enough? (Beginner futures trading)

Old November 5th, 2011, 11:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: oil
Posts: 4 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

The good thing about trading futures, is that I've heards you aren't subject to capital gains taxation. That does gieve you a great advantage. But I also agree the the biggest losses will come from your own trading and not taxes themselves.Cheers.

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Old November 6th, 2011, 09:05 AM   #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago, Illinois
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader, TT, InvestorRT
Broker/Data: Advantage Futures, Ninja/TT and InvestorRT/IQFeed.
Favorite Futures: Treasury futures
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aaatrader View Post
The good thing about trading futures, is that I've heards you aren't subject to capital gains taxation. That does gieve you a great advantage. But I also agree the the biggest losses will come from your own trading and not taxes themselves.Cheers.

In the US, futures profits are taxed at 60% long term capital gains, 40% ordinary income no matter how long you hold you positions. If you lose money on the year, you can only deduct a few thousand (last I heard it was $3000) of your losses against ordinary income, anything over that can only be offset against other gains. I think you can carry losses forward into a future year to offset against future gains.

Don't take this as hard and fast advice, the only part I'm 100% sure of is the 60/40 treatment. I think there's a tax thread somewhere on (formerly BMT).

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..."
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Old November 6th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
Broker/Data: AMP/wCQG, TDA
Favorite Futures: CL,YM
Posts: 1,994 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,171 given, 1,498 received

I lost trying to trade the ES and 6E (and a stab at 6A, 6J, and 6B) in a TOS combo margin account along with stocks and options which I had also lost money in the last few years. Trading futures on a 1min chart on TOS DOM, and during the transition to TD Ameritrade..ughhh.. slippage sluggish capitol...Then I found this site in the early summer. And moved to Ninjatrader and Mirus and tried the fine shared ideas and indicators from here. I started with a 5k account and got margin called! Then I said to myself screw it, and withdrew most of my account from TOS and put it in my Mirus account. Finally been steadily profitable over the last few months although I'm worried sick that my newfound luck of consistency can change anytime.

An $800 loss on 1 contract is about a 64 tick loss on the 6E or ES. Unless you're trading a 15 minute , hour or longer timeframe, better to have the stop loss at 12 to 20 ticks or so. Good luck.

Last edited by Cloudy; November 6th, 2011 at 03:25 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #24 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
New York, NY
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Mult . .
Favorite Futures: Futures
Posts: 47 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 49 given, 64 received

Ravanous View Post
So the consensus for me is to start out with a trading venture that ha scaled-down bank investment requirements like Forex

I agree with scaled-down, but I don't agree with Forex.

If you're at this early stage of the game, I'm concerned that you may not know what to look for in a broker, & how to weed out some of the brokers whose sole object is to fleece you. The forex industry has a well-deserved reputation for rampant corruption. I would avoid it completely if just starting out.

If you go with Micro-Currency Futures, you will essentially be doing the same thing as forex, but you will be on a highly-regulated exchange, and can at least know that it's you who's sabotaging your own account versus your broker doing it for you.

Many reputable firms offer the Micro Currencies at very low cost, and a quick search around the interwebs will turn up several good options. Euro, Aus, & Pound are all acceptably liquid through most of the day. Micro-Gold isn't so bad either, but usually runs a 10-tic spread, which can be an obstacle, depending on your strategy.

Maybe later - if you have a specific reason, & some time to investigate (or have a good recommendation from a trusted source), a Forex broker might be useful. Just be careful.

Best . .

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