Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales) - Traders Hideout | futures io social trading
futures io futures trading


Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)
Updated: Views / Replies:188,315 / 1,003
Created: by bloom Attachments:285

Welcome to futures io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike

Reply
 285  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)

  #731 (permalink)
Elite Member
Hong Kong
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, TWS
Broker/Data: IB/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 233 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 130 given, 303 received

HFT's Six Primary Strategies

Attached is a useful summary graphic showing the Six Primary Strategies of High Frequency Trading (HFT) firms. Note the inside two 'Trading the Tape' which focus on tape itself, but the other four strategies affect our tape reading too of course - particularly the Rebate Trading and Market Making.

Courtesy of t3live.com site where you can enrol for USD25k HFT courses!

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to RichardHK for this post:
 
  #732 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Russia
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 281 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 41 given, 363 received


RichardHK View Post
Attached is a useful summary graphic showing the Six Primary Strategies of High Frequency Trading (HFT) firms. Note the inside two 'Trading the Tape' which focus on tape itself, but the other four strategies affect our tape reading too of course - particularly the Rebate Trading and Market Making.

Courtesy of t3live.com site where you can enrol for USD25k HFT courses!

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Do you know which companies are using a tape for scalp? Names?
who of you guys selling today?

Reply With Quote
 
  #733 (permalink)
Elite Member
Russia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT.MD.MT
Favorite Futures: валютные фьючер&
 
Posts: 1 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 5 given, 0 received

с новым годом


Блум.С наступающим вас.

Reply With Quote
 
  #734 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Russia
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 281 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 41 given, 363 received


gsdrw View Post
Блум.С наступающим вас.

Можно просто Леха или Алекс)))

Reply With Quote
 
  #735 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Kolkata,India
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Broker
Broker/Data: Broker
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 100 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 52 given, 39 received


snusnufreak View Post

08:35

859 bid print @ 30.00 – who would sell into support and why???
11:23

525 bid print @ 30.00 – who would sell into support and why???




DionysusToast View Post
This was explained to me by a ex-pit trader. What I used to see was a lot of countertrend icebergs where they would absorb 3k market orders before the market would just run right through them and carry on the way it was going before.

I thought these people were mad & the trader in question was at my house having me install my software on a PC because he was technologically stunted. Anyway - I mentioned it to him "why do they keep doing it? Won't they run out of money?"

He went to explain that these icebergs are one half of a stat arb trade & the other half could be on the stocks or the big S&Ps. So, when I see trades that make no sense, I consider the fact that this might just be half of a spread/arb trade and the trader might simply not care where this particular market heads afterwards.

Dear snusnufreak and Pete,

Are you talking of the phenomena that I've circled in the attached chart IN RED COLOR?

Secondly, isn't that point acting as a resistance point?

Attached Thumbnails
Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)-1nov2012.png  

Last edited by rocky9281; January 1st, 2013 at 10:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #736 (permalink)
Elite Member
Moscow Russia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 127 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 44 given, 50 received


rocky9281 View Post
Dear snusnufreak and Pete,

Are you talking of the phenomena that I've circled in the attached chart IN RED COLOR?

Secondly, isn't that point acting as a resistance point?

Rocky, I think DT clearly stated that DOM/tape action which is hard to explain could be the stat/arb or hedge traders.

Your picture shows price and volume relations. Usually big volumes signal the end of the move and exits by smart money. All reversal patterns have some common properties:

1. Exits - big volume, big candles, usually at some important and visible S/R lvl.
2. Accumulation - consolidation-type price action with small volume (big boys don't want you to know that the're accumulating position)
3. Breakout and stop-runs - this is where the move starts - big money run stops of smaller traders, these stops help to fuel the further move.

Your picture is a textbook example of a reversal behavior:

1. Massive selling at the support - exits of smart money against short sellers and breakout traders.
2. Consolidation 5630-5638 aprox till 11:24 on your chart - accumulation of a position by big boys.
3. At around 11:24 breakout happens, we see relatively big buy volume - these are stops of people who shorted the market within the consolidation defined.
4. Retest of the high of consolidation with a volume spike and further continuation of an uptrend.

Hope it helps!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to snusnufreak for this post:
 
  #737 (permalink)
Elite Member
Moscow Russia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 127 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 44 given, 50 received


bloom View Post
Do you know which companies are using a tape for scalp? Names?
who of you guys selling today?

Bloom, this is the question that interests me as well. I have a friend who worked in GS as a sales and he knows some traders there, based on his stories of how they do it I can tell you following:

1. They don't use charts and do not trade manually using orderbook/tape. All the scalping is performed by algos. They do say scalping is a way to get going for retail traders, but it is very-very challenging, given the fact that we have to compete against algos.

2. They utilize longer-term arbitrage strategies when they see big divergences between the correlated instruments, and by big I mean not 4-5 ticks but rather 200-300 ticks, so they could be in an arb position for quite a long time - up to several month.

3. When they enter big, they don't care about the best price and can move price fairly easy against them up to several points.

4. Basically nobody there is doing "set R/R = 3 and risk 1% of one's capital" bullshit. They're constantly in the market and are constantly making money using the wide variety of available instruments.

5. They sell options.

Again, I don't know to what extent all this is true, but it seems to make sense to me.


Last edited by snusnufreak; January 3rd, 2013 at 07:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #738 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Russia
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 281 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 41 given, 363 received


snusnufreak View Post
Bloom, this is the question that interests me as well. I have a friend who worked in GS as a sales and he knows some traders there, based on his stories of how they do it I can tell you following:

1. They don't use charts and do not trade manually using orderbook/tape. All the scalping is performed by algos. They do say scalping is a way to get going for retail traders, but it is very-very challenging, given the fact that we have to compete against algos.

2. They utilize longer-term arbitrage strategies when they see big divergences between the correlated instruments, and by big I mean not 4-5 ticks but rather 200-300 ticks, so they could be in an arb position for quite a long time - up to several month.

3. When they enter big, they don't care about the best price and can move price fairly easy against them up to several points.

4. Basically nobody there is doing "set R/R = 3 and risk 1% of one's capital" bullshit. They're constantly in the market and are constantly making money using the wide variety of available instruments.

5. They sell options.

Again, I don't know to what extent all this is true, but it seems to make sense to me.

I have many friends here in Russia who working inside of this business
I tell you - We have a same things here )))
I know guys who are doing ARB and options, i know guys who working on the order or trader desk )))
What is a traders work? You seating at your desk. Rings phone and you here voice of your manager - I need 6 000 futures S&P500 right now. Ok. What you are doing next? You buy 6000 futures and in the same moment selling stocks or another futures. If you need 120 000 dollars to long 6 000 futures, than you must sell another instrument on 120 000 dollars. You made an ARB hedge. maybe there will be another ratio between money in long and short. But you are always hedging. What the reason? 1) Comission rebates 2) You are opening position for some of yours clients
For what reasons you need charts? I do not see any reason)))
Than you see how other guys traders doing positions for other clients you do not need charts)))
Someone buys 6000 fut from Moscow
Someone buys 120000 from Hong Kong and so on and on and on )))
And i know a guy from City bank. He was a trader there 3 years. And he tells me about a tape)) And show some magick ))) What do you think. Where actual HE IS had study a tape? )))) So some different guys doing some different things ))) I know such fonds exist and they cut a SL of retail traders. This is small fonds. For ex
investors gave you 100 mln dollars. 90 mln you buy treasury ))) Fixed % 10%. 9 mln dollars )))
And you have 9 mln dollars you can give for some small HF and they will do a scalp for you with pleasure)))


Last edited by bloom; January 3rd, 2013 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to bloom for this post:
 
  #739 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bergen Norway
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 3 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 9 given, 2 received


snusnufreak View Post
This is the final part.

ES 17 12 12 down 3 - YouTube

00:00 - 01:10 - selling pressure builds up, but yet again the 1416.75 level holds and price barely touches the 1416.50 level

1:20 - 1:50 we see buying resume (tape is mostly green) and interesting flash of 2319 orders on the bid @ 1417.25 1:50 is seen (in real time i would've probably never noticed this) - luring people into buying again? Notice that this is the same level where we have seen multiple active buying in previous video.

3:50 - 1250 trades agains 1417.25 offer - AGAIN same level!

5:18 - 5:41 - buying resumes, something weird happens @ 1418.00 level with 3206 contracts traded. My guees that these are stops of people who shorted earlier @ the 1417 - 1417.25 (just like i did in previous video)

6:00 - 6:30 active selling, notice how limits are being pulled off the bids as well - smart money ran retail stops and now actively shorting the marketd, cos the have a pretty good short position with all that buying we've seen against their limits at 1417 price area.

This is a good place to short, but i doubt anyone would do it so fast after his stop has been run out during the previous attempt to go short. I definitely woldn't be so quick. But again, I'm only starting to learn and hopefuly one day I will be entering second or even third time with no doubt. The key thing to remember is that the risk stayed unchanged - one would be entering at the same level with the same small stop, so re-entry is a MUST!


My resume for these series is that setups don't always happen fast and in one place, sometimes it is the whole gameplay by smart money one needs to identify. And in order to do so, one needs A LOT of practice!

I think this is what DT describes in some of his posts - smart money act in key areas luring both breakout traders and faders into positions, running stops of both groups and making money of them! Pro gameplay at its finest!

Great work - really interesting !

The thing I see here is that no one wants to buy 17.50 - and no one wants to sell the 16.75 level - just watch - it happens over and over againg - The result is that the price is "trapped" in a two tick range. Quite funny actually I read this as a prime example of the sheep not knowing where to go - Everybody is waiting for someone with some money to make a move. I would wait for a decisive move in either direction, and trade the pullback.

Great work - let us keep it rolling.

Lulliloo

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to lulliloo for this post:
 
  #740 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
DionysusToast's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,520 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 753 given, 7,792 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary



snusnufreak View Post
Bloom, this is the question that interests me as well. I have a friend who worked in GS as a sales and he knows some traders there, based on his stories of how they do it I can tell you following:

1. They don't use charts and do not trade manually using orderbook/tape. All the scalping is performed by algos. They do say scalping is a way to get going for retail traders, but it is very-very challenging, given the fact that we have to compete against algos.

2. They utilize longer-term arbitrage strategies when they see big divergences between the correlated instruments, and by big I mean not 4-5 ticks but rather 200-300 ticks, so they could be in an arb position for quite a long time - up to several month.

3. When they enter big, they don't care about the best price and can move price fairly easy against them up to several points.

4. Basically nobody there is doing "set R/R = 3 and risk 1% of one's capital" bullshit. They're constantly in the market and are constantly making money using the wide variety of available instruments.

5. They sell options.

Again, I don't know to what extent all this is true, but it seems to make sense to me.

Of course, not all traders are day traders. I know a guy that ran a team of traders in Singapore, for a Canadian bank strangely enough. They were quite exotic - larger barrier options and the like.

He retired at 32 years old.

They were also more long term and of course would not have been staring at a DOM/Time & Sales.

If you look at prop shops - that's where you see them using the DOM to piggy back the trades of the guys at GS you were talking about.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

FIO Journal Challenge featuring NinjaTrader ($2,000+ of prizes)

May

An overview of volumetric analytical tools w/Sergey Sokolov @ PTMC

Elite only

John Hoagland (TBA)

Elite only

FuturesTrader71 Extended Ask Me Anything (AMA)

Elite only

Pete @ Jigsaw Trading (TBA)

Elite only

John @ No BS Day Trading (TBA)

Elite only

An Afternoon with FIO member Softsoap (being rescheduled)

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some questions about tape-reading CME data ptd26 Traders Hideout 24 November 14th, 2014 11:05 AM
Pace of Tape trader8642 NinjaTrader 7 August 5th, 2014 11:11 PM
Anyone here use tape reading in their methodology ? Xzap Traders Hideout 23 December 19th, 2013 04:03 AM
What is tape reading? Big Mike Traders Hideout 34 May 20th, 2011 07:58 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:15 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-05-27 in 0.18 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.81.44.47