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Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)
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Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)

  #561 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
They will place a large bid BUT, they will show only 100-200 units instead of 50000 units.

What you describing is an Iceberg order. After the first 100 gets filled it gets replace with another 100. We might be able to see this with the Dual Tape. If the Bid tape is flowing good but the bid size is staying the same or not clearing out, then high chance it is Iceberg.


Quoting 
Only way to recognize if there is a large pro bidding is to search for bids that are:
1. Not showing size, and
2. It is rising up.

I dont know maybe.


Quoting 
Please look into the attached video.

1. Time= 00:19...bid size =154 but bid rate rising from 66.60 to 66.65
2. Time= 00:22...bid size =153 but bid rate rising from 66.70 to 66.75 to 66.80 to 66.85.

While these bids were rising, not a single trade was reported.

After these events, price shoot up 10 points.

Dear seniors, have I pointed out something important or was that useless??

I cant really tell what the colors of your time and sales mean. You have like 6 different colors.

I think what you asking is that the BID is rising but no trades where hitting the Offer?

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  #562 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
While these bids were rising, not a single trade was reported.

It means all of the offers where pulled. Thats the only way the bid can rise like that.

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  #563 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
This is my new research paper and I hope the seniors will agree with me in this topic that, big players will NEVER SHOW THE SIZE OF THEIR BID.

This is why I love your questions. It gets me thinking then we find the answers. This is my breakthrough:

If there is Iceberg orders that refill as soon as a little piece is fill as to not show all the size of there bid on limit, then there must be an opposite of this order. I will call it the Mouse Trap order.

This is how the mouse trap order works. Big player puts a big bid, but instead of his Algo adding orders after one is filled it removes all the rest of the orders. POOF!

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  #564 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
Why would the Large players show their limits in Level 2. By this way, they are just telling the public where they are going to buy or sell. They will hide as much info as possible.

This is my new research paper and I hope the seniors will agree with me in this topic that, big players will NEVER SHOW THE SIZE OF THEIR BID.

They will place a large bid BUT, they will show only 100-200 units instead of 50000 units.

Only way to recognize if there is a large pro bidding is to search for bids that are:
1. Not showing size, and
2. It is rising up.

Please look into the attached video.

1. Time= 00:19...bid size =154 but bid rate rising from 66.60 to 66.65
2. Time= 00:22...bid size =153 but bid rate rising from 66.70 to 66.75 to 66.80 to 66.85.

While these bids were rising, not a single trade was reported.

After these events, price shoot up 10 points.

Dear seniors, have I pointed out something important or was that useless??

If that was important, let me ask whether we will search for this phenomenon only in the Best Bid or all bid levels below it? Does all of them indicates the presence of a big buyer?

Big players will show their bids/offers.

Take a look at wheat. Professional hedgers there wil most certainly show their size.

The only thing you can say about big size is that sometimes it is real and sometimes it isn't. In a thinner market, it's less likely to be fake as thinner markets are very dangerous for spoofers.

Any individual bid/offer means very little without context and considering the action as it approaches/hits that level.

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  #565 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
Big players will show their bids/offers.

Take a look at wheat. Professional hedgers there wil most certainly show their size.

The only thing you can say about big size is that sometimes it is real and sometimes it isn't. In a thinner market, it's less likely to be fake as thinner markets are very dangerous for spoofers.

Any individual bid/offer means very little without context and considering the action as it approaches/hits that level.

Pete,

If the large bids are not fake,aren't they "inviting" the public to buy with them? In other words, aren't they calling for their own disaster? Why they are not hiding the bids knowing that many traders do trade by studying the Level 2 ladder?

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  #566 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
Pete,

If the large bids are not fake,aren't they "inviting" the public to buy with them? In other words, aren't they calling for their own disaster? Why they are not hiding the bids knowing that many traders do trade by studying the Level 2 ladder?

Here's the thing.

A bid is a bid. There are no types of bid. Some are fake & some are real. You only know which when they pull the orders OR when someone hits them.

Now - remember the intended use of futures markets, that is for hedging.

Let's say some guy who buys & sells wheat needs to go to the futures market and secure a certain price - why would he NOT advertise it so people come to him and trade.

Same goes with the indices.

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  #567 (permalink)
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tape reading

Hi all, I'm new here and you guys seem to acually take trading serious.
I used to try to keep up with the dom and T&S and my chart to track big hidden size. But i figured out that if i just watched T&S next to my 15sec chart. You can clearly see when size is being soaked up without further movement. And if your at a key level, I look to see if it will lift on smaller size and wait for the retest on lighter vol and jump in as long as my so called "ease of movement" stays intact.

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  #568 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
Why would the Large players show their limits in Level 2. By this way, they are just telling the public where they are going to buy or sell. They will hide as much info as possible.

This is my new research paper and I hope the seniors will agree with me in this topic that, big players will NEVER SHOW THE SIZE OF THEIR BID.

They will place a large bid BUT, they will show only 100-200 units instead of 50000 units.

Only way to recognize if there is a large pro bidding is to search for bids that are:
1. Not showing size, and
2. It is rising up.

Please look into the attached video.

1. Time= 00:19...bid size =154 but bid rate rising from 66.60 to 66.65
2. Time= 00:22...bid size =153 but bid rate rising from 66.70 to 66.75 to 66.80 to 66.85.

While these bids were rising, not a single trade was reported.

After these events, price shoot up 10 points.

Dear seniors, have I pointed out something important or was that useless??

If that was important, let me ask whether we will search for this phenomenon only in the Best Bid or all bid levels below it? Does all of them indicates the presence of a big buyer?

In this post i want to talk about to different things
POSITION and ORDER
Never say never. Sometimes Pros show bids or offers, sometimes not.
What difference between position and orders? Position consist from orders. Lets say you need 50 000 position long at 100$.
Yes guys. You ll never show this wish to the market. Because such big limit order 50 000 will fear all the market and you will not get filled.
But if you are will separate this 50 000 to 10 orders 5000 each, than this would be easyly to get filled such ORDERS from which will consict your POSITION. On the other hand pros never get all POSITION in to the market. There is a santnace on Russian
"We do not need 900, to times 200 and 500"
1000 cars thrown in to market 10 times by 100 cars in each enter stronger, than 1000 thrown all 1000 cars in 1 time .
So while pros gathering POSITION they will show you ORDERS at the bid or offer sometimes. Sometimes not.
But you will know they are here if you learn to evaluate quality of how orders get fillled. I describe the situation not only once.
What will you think if 50 000 apperas on the offer and in 3 secs it get filled? And bid is weak and there is no signatures of big bid limits.
Or. You see large prints on the BID on the tape, than 50 000*100$ limit offer apears and get filled with 3 secs and tape show
10 000* 100$ 9:30:00
15 000* 100$ 9:30:00
5 000 * 100$ 9:30:01
20 000* 100$ 9:30:02
Want you to go short?
Or. You see large prints on the BID on the tape, than 50 000 * 100$ limit offer apears and not get filled at all. Market do not even try to fill it.
Want you to go short?
There is no universal answer.
To undersatand big guys you need to think like big guys.

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  #569 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
Here's the thing.

A bid is a bid. There are no types of bid. Some are fake & some are real. You only know which when they pull the orders OR when someone hits them.

Now - remember the intended use of futures markets, that is for hedging.

Let's say some guy who buys & sells wheat needs to go to the futures market and secure a certain price - why would he NOT advertise it so people come to him and trade.

Same goes with the indices.

And this the way the pros think.
They trade weat and use futures to hedge. Think about market from this point.
Coca Cola, Hersheys, Nestle, Mc Donalds. They inside of the market and know all about it. THis is the job they need to do to be first in line.
City bank, Meryl and others banks produce financial products and hedging them too in the futures markets.
Broker firms and many others do they job. They know about market what you do not.
Do you know that 70-80% of stocks trade out of the stock exchange. All you trade is a freefloat. This is not even market. I am General motors and i need to sell big POSITION of stocks. Will i go to usual stock exchange?
No.
I will make the phone call to my broker and he will call to City bank and City will buy my stocks. And you will know about it from news. Not from the market. ANd than price will made a dramatical move.
Billions of dollars and you even do not know this.
So there is no one answer. It is a complex. All i want to say. If you do not know reasons of pros, and you put in this your own opinion- this is dangerous game. It is better to go and ask some pros in real life.
You see a big BID print and than price go down, but you think it should go up. ANd you think " Why it go down?" "What reasons?"
Guys. THere 1 billion fuc..g reasons.
The way you need to think is that
"Ok. There is a big BID print on the tape. Price going down. What reasons? There 1 bln reasons. Ahhh. Who cares? If market go down. ill go with it. SHort"
THis is the way you need to think.


Last edited by bloom; November 13th, 2011 at 12:54 PM.
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  #570 (permalink)
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bloom View Post
1.What will you think if 50 000 apperas on the offer and in 3 secs it get filled?

2.And bid is weak and there is no signatures of big bid limits.

3.Or. You see large prints on the BID on the tape, than 50 000*100$ limit offer apears and get filled with 3 secs and tape show
10 000* 100$ 9:30:00
15 000* 100$ 9:30:00
5 000 * 100$ 9:30:01
20 000* 100$ 9:30:02
Want you to go short?

4.Or. You see large prints on the BID on the tape, than 50 000 * 100$ limit offer apears and not get filled at all. Market do not even try to fill it.
Want you to go short?

1. 50,000 on offer-Seller is big guy (if all 50,000 come from 1 guy)
3 secs it get filled- buyer is also big guy.

Here we establish long OR short and be ready to reverse position. Am I correct?

2.We need to have one more parameter here. Is price getting support here? Lets assume price is being supported here.

There may be 2 situations here:
  • There is actually no bid, but price not going down because there is no seller too. So not enter any trade here
  • There is a large bid which is hidden. Price getting support in spite of selling. So, this is a place to enter long.
How do we differentiate the above 2 scenarios?

Case 1-slow tape
Case 2-fast tape,nice filling,but price unable to break support.

Am I correct?


3. No, there is a huge buyer. Time to go long.Right?


4. Very weak buyers. Time to short..Right?

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