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Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)
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Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)

  #541 (permalink)
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I use the tape (T&S) in combination with the DOM. I think the two are inseperable... it's like poker; the tape represents the hands that people actually have, the DOM is just the betting.

For example, a very common thing to see in an orderbook is during an uptrend, there is an offer that does not really get lifted. Then, someone goes and bids in size. Then people start to lift the offer and trade the breakout, upon which the sizeable bid dissappears. The guy on the offer was the same guy who posted the size on the bid; he wanted out, he wanted people to buy is offer, so he made a bluff. An elementary bluff.

there are lots of games like this.

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  #542 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
This whole week I have been thinking about "good quality fill" and I have developed some queries :

1. The phenomenon of "good quality fill" is something to watch in the charts only? Or there can be some confirmation in the T&S too that can say whether quality of filling that is going on is good or bad?

2. What are the different reasons for price rejection?

3. Is Good filling opposite of Price rejection?

4. If the price tends to "stick" to the bid, is it an indication that the bid is getting a good quality fill?

5. There are many times when the price keeps on bouncing up and down over a bid. Does that mean that (a)quality of fill is poor and (2) the seller is more likely small traders? Shall we avoid analyzing such situations? If not, then how to analyze this situation and how to take advantage of that?

6. If the price "sticks" to the bid (good filling of the bid). the following can happen:
a.The bid gets broken. Will we short here ?
b.The bid starts to get rejected. Will we buy here ?

7. In our country, we don't have access to DOM or L2 data. So is it ok to guess the places where a big bid (or offer) is present from the charts only? Like if price is constantly hitting a level but can't break it, does that indicates that a big bid/offer is residing at that level?

8. For an uptrend, will it be correct to say that subsequent ask levels (each level higher than the one before it) receives good quality fills from the market buyer? AND, as long as this good filling continues, the uptrend will continue else stop?

9. Please look into the image attached and please point out the mistakes in it .

Thanks for reading my question paper. lol

Thanks in advance to them who may want to reply them.

Apologies to others who feel bored after reading them

Dear Rocky,

I am not going to answer your questions in detail, because I am still only a beginner in Tape Reading, and still not a consistent winner in trading. I don't want to mislead others.

What I want to tell you is only my experience that I think may be useful to help you save some time & money, and this is only my good intention, which may not be true.... because I am still on the road to become consistent winner, I still don't know the answer yet, so no guarantee.

My advice for you is don't think Trading can be learn in hurry!
If you want to learn it quick, it may turn out wasting you even more time (& sure more money). It is my experience.

Just follow what Bloom said for a beginner:

Just watch the Tape only when price reaching previous HLOC, nothing more, for at least 3 months.
Only using simulation account, don't trade real, just watching and find out what the different and common every time.

Then I think you will have some of the answers yourself.

(Also, what is your data feed? Have a good internet? If it is not good data feed, not stable and fast internet, then don't waste your time try to learn anything reading Tape, because you need the data coming "real-time" to have a feeling)

(Also, if you have time, try to re-read this thread from the beginning, Bloom and DionysusToast have guided us to think what is the "important things" we need to consider, you are no need to create your own questions about the market, just follow their mentioned "things" for faster learning)

Best Regards,
Antony Ho.


Last edited by AntonyHo; October 10th, 2011 at 06:15 AM.
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  #543 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
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rocky9281 View Post
Some of the terms I have trouble understanding (underlined above).Please clarify:

  • Reaction- what do u mean by reaction?
  • Support resistance levels- you mean all the important levels like Previous OHLC,today’s OHL, Monthly and yearly S/R etc?
  • Quality of how orders get filled-Please elaborate this.
  • Who are stronger-How to understand who is stronger?
  • Simply supply were satisfied-You mean the trader was ONLY able to establish shorts, and UNABLE to move prices down?
  • Remember what price were this seller. It would be support level than he ll begin to go out of short –google translator did a bad job.

Reaction- What is happenening after the prints. If there more prints on bid hit in to the big bid limits.,or big bid limits still there but there is no more big prints at the bid.
If there accelerating or slow down of the small tape which shows you amount of trades are growing or fading out.
Support resistance levels OHLC days weeks months and todays. There more and it is up to you which of them to use. What is important if there market reaction on this levels or not. OHLC i talk about always have good reactions.
Quality of how orders get filled. Man it easyer than you think. 3000 ask limit oredr at the ES.
1) it get filled quickly for 5 seconds
2) it get filled only 1500 cars so there is 1500 left
3) it get filled fo 5 minutes.
Which situation provides you information that quality of filling was good?
I think №1.

Simply supply were satisfied-You mean the trader was ONLY able to establish shorts, and UNABLE to move prices down?

I do not know what this trader able for. I know supply he provides were lower than deamand was that is why market went up.

Remember what price were this seller. It would be support level than he ll begin to go out of short –google translator did a bad job.

and yes there is no need to thank me))) I do not use google translator. And you? Do you could to say one good sentence in Russian? I bet you could not)))
I do not have any wish to talk with people who constantly show me on my bad english.
Go and learn russian and we will talk than
Start from Nabokov or Pushkin
Cheers

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  #544 (permalink)
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cpi65 View Post
I use the tape (T&S) in combination with the DOM. I think the two are inseperable... it's like poker; the tape represents the hands that people actually have, the DOM is just the betting.

For example, a very common thing to see in an orderbook is during an uptrend, there is an offer that does not really get lifted. Then, someone goes and bids in size. Then people start to lift the offer and trade the breakout, upon which the sizeable bid dissappears. The guy on the offer was the same guy who posted the size on the bid; he wanted out, he wanted people to buy is offer, so he made a bluff. An elementary bluff.

there are lots of games like this.

Yes. It is so. DOM and T&S together gives more understanding. But T&S could be used without DOM.About bluff))
Hmm i see so many bluffs and your example thery common and simple.
There is much bluffers, but you know?
than market filling really big ask and in this moment BID looks weak. hey this is very strong buy signal. And opposite.
I am trading RTSI may be you know and there are medium size of contracts 250-300 on the limit side. So there are few variants of how this type of orders remains.
1)Solo which represent one order.
2)Small group
3)And huge group
thery often apperas guys with 1000-1500 solo cars to scare or another reasons. So if i am know market is prepare to upward movement and there is 1500 cars appears on the ask. I am strongly want to hit exactly this guy, because i know after he get filled there will be reaction that provides me minimal risk and the good fast momentum.
I think than the other traders are too doing such things, because i see how quick this 1500 solo big orders filled in particular situations.


Last edited by bloom; October 10th, 2011 at 06:28 AM.
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  #545 (permalink)
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traderlars View Post
i guess i'll try to help you since I'm reading the thread right now.

first, nice to meet you. its always great to chat with another non-chart trader.

basically bloom trades without considering whether the trade executed at the bid or ask. he calls it a monochrome tape. essentially he is using some market profile concepts and some technical analysis concepts to take entries using the "monochrome strip" let me explain.

when bloom says he likes to see larger and larger trades as his position moves in his favor, he is basically reiterating a market profile concept. that concept is that price will find a range that allows the most volume to be transacted between buyers and sellers. essentially he is looking for low volume price rejection, then he is looking for large buyers to step up and then bloom will take the trade anticipating that large buyers will move price back into an area that everyone agree's on. he doesn't look at bid/ask on the tape, he looks for price rejection/acceptance based on the size of trades at a certain price level.

i think its an interesting approach but it doesn't take some things into consideration. for example you cannot use this strategy during low volume/ low liquidity situations. the reason is that the market can move on very low volume. lets say for example that a long is liquidating and he doesn't want or can't sell past the low of his box. he then lifts a couple ticks and soon realizes that he doesn't have any sellers above him. after a while he realizes he can sell the market higher using a little creativity simply because there are no other sellers. likewise there may not be much buying either, or he may be the buyer. the point is, the market can move very far without ever seeing any meaningful size transact and therefore may give the wrong signal on the tape using blooms strategy. in my opinion, on the es, this is best employed during the first 1-2 hours and the last hour.

i think its cool that you bracket the tape and use it like a breakout system. the guy who invented that (at least i think) is the owner of traderlaboratory(dot)com he has videos over there if you ever want to get more info on that strategy. i can't seem to remember his name, i think its james, i haven't been over there in like four years.

also if you ever need a different pace of tape indicator, this guy publish an open source version. tradewiththeflow(dot)com
he also has some video's explaining how to use it. its a pretty interesting concept but i have to admit i haven't used it myself

thanks and good luck with your trading.

i'll see you on the tape,
lars

It is a real pleasure to me to see how thread accumulate such intellegance peoples
I am tired little today so i ll may be write later about your view of my aproach))
You almost correct but only a low volume market. I am not only watsh big but also small prints. I try my best to explain what actually am i doing)))
Thanks man. You did it best than i could. See you in the DOM ))))

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  #546 (permalink)
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AntonyHo View Post
Dear Rocky,

You need to spend a lot of time watching the market to get the answers for your
questions. You must pay twice your effort for that.

The total understanding of the market is a HUGE project that I think no beginner can
"learn" all the thing at the same time, so my suggestion for you is that you must learn
them slowly, one by one.

You cannot eat 100 pizzas in one day, but you can eat that amount in one year or a few years if needed.

My answers to your questions: (you need to find them yourself in order to be useful for yourself)

1. Reaction:
What is the reaction of a girl you first meet and you say hello to her? She may smile at
you or she may slap on your face. What is the reaction you want to see?
Now when price go up to a resistance level, and then Big Trades come in, and what
reaction you can then see? The Tape/price slow down and pull-back a few points or the
price just stop for a second and you see on the Tape still many buyers coming in, and
price still continue up? If I want to consider short at this level, sure I want to see
some kind of pull-back to confirm that the market/demand is not too strong to consider
short.

2. S/R levels:
All Hi,Lo,Close,Pivots PP R1 S1,etc, and whole numbers like 100, intraday high low etc
are S/R levels. Too many to consider for beginner, so Bloom suggest us at the beginning
only consider previous days' Hi Lo Close.

3. Quality of how orders get filled:
When you watch closely on the ES, sometime you can see a price tick very difficult to
take out... many attempt to "eat" this tick, but just cannot....
But on the other time, you see big limit orders sit on the ask, but just get eat like a
cake....
I don't know how to define "Quality of how orders get filled" but when you watch ES
closely and longer you can just see them.... it is not as easy as saying like 35% or 64%
Quality, but you can have a tell about the different.

4. Who is stronger:
When price go up to a resistance level, speed is slow, orders on the Tape are all small
trades, then at the resistance level, a lot of Big trades show up fast and push price
lower, you tell me who is stronger?
Now, if price go up to the same resistance level, speed is fast, with big trades showing
continuously and never stop, and the price never pull back or stop, you tell me who is
stronger?
The two cases above are extreme case, there are many cases not easy to tell for beginner
like you and me..... the only thing I can do right now is just don't trade and skip this
level... haha but sometime I still overtrade, and "guess" who is stronger! I need to get
rid of those overtrade to become consistent.

5. Simply supply were satisfied:
Don't think it too complicated, the market is a big market. The big trader supply of
10000 contracts for sell, but if there are still over 10000 small retail traders with 1
or 2 contracts need to buy ( maybe they shorts previous days, and today see no hope price will
drop back, so they need to buy to cover), then the 10000 contracts for sell will be eat up.

6. Remember what price were this seller. It would be support level than he ll begin to go
out of short:
I think Bloom means: It would be support level that he'll begin to get out of his short
positions.
Let say, if you have short at a level with 10000 contracts, then price just go up and
you are now lossing.... what will you do later if price luckily come back to your entry
level? Will you buy to cover your short position?
It is the basic operation of S/R levels.

I am still a learner, so don't just blindly believe what I say, find the answers out
yourself so that you can believe in yourself... it is what you need to trade.

Let me Thanks Bloom again here, for he guide me think more about the detail of the
market. And when you can "see" what is really happening, there is much lesser fear inside my
head.

Best Regards,
Antony Ho.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
Man you already know how to read. Go and do trades. But think first ))))
Great ))) You totaly correct

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  #547 (permalink)
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NINJA T&S settings

does any 1 know how to set the T7S to just show RED for sellers and GREEN for buyers

i just want to see RED and GREEN

dont want the HI and LOW of day to be hi lighted

ect

just simle RED for sellers

and GREEN for buyers

is this possible i been playing witht the setting all morning

thanks

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  #548 (permalink)
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right click on T&S, in properties

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  #549 (permalink)
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gktk View Post
right click on T&S, in properties

Yeh been playing with them all week :-(

come to the conclusion......i wont be able to get it how i want it with these settings

need a programmer to or some thing to change the script

cheers for the relpy tho

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  #550 (permalink)
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Time and Sales


Something like this


sharmas

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: docx time ans sales.docx (131.2 KB, 163 views)
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