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Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)
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Tape is my shape (tape reading, time and sales)

  #411 (permalink)
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pbylina View Post
I dont know if Im capable of that. Ill try. I want to put my stop to breakeven as soon as possible but not to early. Can I move my stop to BE in the DOM? How?

I was thinking a good target would be the next level but try to see if there are any roadblocks along the way.

Yeah, lets see what happens. If I fail at least I tried. If or when I trade for real 2 lots would = $25/tick. With a 4 tick stop thats $100 risk. I have $2500 account. So that would be a 4% risk. Is it too big of a risk or fine?

You're under-capitalized ! Unless you you are extremely talented or extremely lucky, and are able to catch some larger moves, adding to winners along the way, slippage and commissions will decimate your account.

Nevertheless, the skill you are trying to develop, will only serve to help you in trading. It will provide you with a valuable (but not invaluable) tool. But as a stand alone strategy, will not prove to be as practical.

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  #412 (permalink)
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11. Low of Day, Support 2, 200sma support


bloom View Post
Note to yourself how market behave itself relative to big limits. No reversals no slow down of the tape. This orders are get filled and this indicates large supply. So tell me. What a quality of how they are get filled? Is it good or is it bad? I think you already know the answer .

Yes, I would say good filling. Tape didnt run away from big limit.


Quoting 
1.4400 market slow down? is quality of filling orders became worse?

Yep.

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  #413 (permalink)
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Exiting after mark up


Bloom and DionysusToast,

I always wanted to ask this question to you guys.

Let’s suppose the following is a way how a professional trades:

Suppose he has accumulated 10,000 contracts at 1,120 level over a period of 2 hours. As a result of his buying, the price has been range bound for this time period in the chart. Now that he has finished buying, he is ready to markup and exit with a limit sell at 1,125. For this, he has set a limit sell order at 1,125 EVEN BEFORE he has started to throw market orders for the markup.

Before he starts markup, he calculates how many contracts he has to buy during markup. He adds up all the offers and lets say the total is 1,000 (level 1,121 to 1,124).

See the illustration:

1,125---- He set limit offer here with size 11,000 (=10,000+100+200+300+400...according to calculation)
1,124---- DOM shows 400 at ask here
1,123---- DOM shows 300 at ask here
1,122---- DOM shows 200 at ask here
1,121---- DOM shows 100 at ask here
1,120---- He accumulated 10,000 contracts here

Now let’s see how many contracts he collects at each level of mark up:

1,125---- He set limit offer here with size 11,000 (=10,000+100+200+300+400)
1,124----11,000
1,123----10,600
1,122----10,300
1,121----10,100
1,120----10,000

So when he is at 1,124, he is holding 11,000 contracts long AND he is offering 11,000 at 1,125.

Question:

How will he exit his position?
1.Will he place another market buy order of 11,000 size-to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125 level?
In other words, he is throwing market buy orders at his own limit offers!!! IS THIS POSSIBLE?

2.Will he wait for the public or other pro to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125?
3. Something else.Please suggest other ways he may do this

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  #414 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
Bloom and DionysusToast,

I always wanted to ask this question to you guys.

Letís suppose the following is a way how a professional trades:

Suppose he has accumulated 10,000 contracts at 1,120 level over a period of 2 hours. As a result of his buying, the price has been range bound for this time period in the chart. Now that he has finished buying, he is ready to markup and exit with a limit sell at 1,125. For this, he has set a limit sell order at 1,125 EVEN BEFORE he has started to throw market orders for the markup.

Before he starts markup, he calculates how many contracts he has to buy during markup. He adds up all the offers and lets say the total is 1,000 (level 1,121 to 1,124).

See the illustration:

1,125---- He set limit offer here with size 11,000 (=10,000+100+200+300+400...according to calculation)
1,124---- DOM shows 400 at ask here
1,123---- DOM shows 300 at ask here
1,122---- DOM shows 200 at ask here
1,121---- DOM shows 100 at ask here
1,120---- He accumulated 10,000 contracts here

Now letís see how many contracts he collects at each level of mark up:

1,125---- He set limit offer here with size 11,000 (=10,000+100+200+300+400)
1,124----11,000
1,123----10,600
1,122----10,300
1,121----10,100
1,120----10,000

So when he is at 1,124, he is holding 11,000 contracts long AND he is offering 11,000 at 1,125.

Question:

How will he exit his position?
1.Will he place another market buy order of 11,000 size-to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125 level?
In other words, he is throwing market buy orders at his own limit offers!!! IS THIS POSSIBLE?

2.Will he wait for the public or other pro to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125?
3. Something else.Please suggest other ways he may do this

It's possible, but illegal!

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  #415 (permalink)
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pbylina View Post
I dont know if Im capable of that. Ill try. I want to put my stop to breakeven as soon as possible but not to early. Can I move my stop to BE in the DOM? How?

I was thinking a good target would be the next level but try to see if there are any roadblocks along the way.

Yeah, lets see what happens. If I fail at least I tried. If or when I trade for real 2 lots would = $25/tick. With a 4 tick stop thats $100 risk. I have $2500 account. So that would be a 4% risk. Is it too big of a risk or fine?

This is suicide my friend so try sim before )))
2-3% loss per day my max loss per day but if your is different this is yours)))
I have no Profit target and only daily goals such as 1) only good chances entry 2) doing right things 3) good trades and good discipline
Money is not concerned me as i know if i do my work well they appears)))
So about your SL
Man 4 ticks SL for 6E this is your dream. The reality is that my SL at the S&P 500 mini 4 ticks and this is crazy crazy little for many people, but works for me as i already show. But compare 3000*4=12000 S&P500 contracts before my stop and yours 300*400=1200 in the ideal situation. Hey, my chances bigger in 10 times than yours. So 10-15 ticks is your reality and you have to live with that.
So 100-150 per 1 lot and 1 trade per a day, and you my friend bad capitalized. Sim only sim.
You should trade something with less cost tick. DX maybe or 5 years T notes futures

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  #416 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
Bloom and DionysusToast,


1.Will he place another market buy order of 11,000 size-to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125 level?
In other words, he is throwing market buy orders at his own limit offers!!! IS THIS POSSIBLE?

No. Even subaccounts are closed to CROSSTRADES. If you had two different sub accounts, let it be 23400 main account and 23400A & 23400B. If there will be matches between 23400 A 23400B in a trade, so this trades are not coming through.
But someone who knows you and you plan could do this from another account. He even could to seat right with you in one room or it can be only you pushing buttons on the different accounts ))))
So so so so )))))


rocky9281 View Post
2.Will he wait for the public or other pro to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125? [FONT=&quot]

If he is put so big order than this is last he had))) He never show you all the amount of position he need to collect. order and position different things. So if you see 11000 ASK than know this is a seller and he needed to order get filled.
So maybe there was not a buyer and this was seller and he get out)) Think from this point of view.
On the other hand public do not look a tape so it easier to do so - put limit 11000 ASK and then pull of it with small parts 11000-10000-8000 and so on. Public watching DOM and will see that large order getting smaller but tape will show nothing.
SO i will say it probably was a seller and he was doing position or sell position

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  #417 (permalink)
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bloom View Post
This is suicide my friend so try sim before )))
2-3% loss per day my max loss per day but if your is different this is yours)))
I have no Profit target and only daily goals such as 1) only good chances entry 2) doing right things 3) good trades and good discipline
Money is not concerned me as i know if i do my work well they appears)))
So about your SL
Man 4 ticks SL for 6E this is your dream. The reality is that my SL at the S&P 500 mini 4 ticks and this is crazy crazy little for many people, but works for me as i already show. But compare 3000*4=12000 S&P500 contracts before my stop and yours 300*400=1200 in the ideal situation. Hey, my chances bigger in 10 times than yours. So 10-15 ticks is your reality and you have to live with that.
So 100-150 per 1 lot and 1 trade per a day, and you my friend bad capitalized. Sim only sim.
You should trade something with less cost tick. DX maybe or 5 years T notes futures

Yeah I will be doing the Sim thing next week like we said.

Yeah I remember when I used to trade spot I risk 10% on trade. RR=1:1. It didnt work out 3 loosing trades in a row
and I lost like half my accout! I dont think that will happen anymore. So now no more then 5%.

I'm confused. You saying 4tick stop is too small for 6E? I think its big.

Anyway, could I place trades on a spot fx account like Oanda? I think I might try it. You can make tick worth anything you want. $100 account = 0.35 cents/tick. I think this is what Ill do.

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  #418 (permalink)
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pbylina View Post
Yeah I will be doing the Sim thing next week like we said.

Yeah I remember when I used to trade spot I risk 10% on trade. RR=1:1. It didnt work out 3 loosing trades in a row
and I lost like half my accout! I dont think that will happen anymore. So now no more then 5%.

I'm confused. You saying 4tick stop is too small for 6E? I think its big.

Anyway, could I place trades on a spot fx account like Oanda? I think I might try it. You can make tick worth anything you want. $100 account = 0.35 cents/tick. I think this is what Ill do.

You can try all you want with one rule))) Take care about your psychological capital. If you are ready to loose and you admit it than go on))) but if you not you could spare big part of your psychological capital and it is very hard to refine)))
10% oh my god))) I remember time than i were crazy too
And yes. 4 ticks is small stop lose for 6E

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  #419 (permalink)
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bloom View Post
You can try all you want with one rule))) Take care about your psychological capital. If you are ready to loose and you admit it than go on))) but if you not you could spare big part of your psychological capital and it is very hard to refine)))
10% oh my god))) I remember time than i were crazy too
And yes. 4 ticks is small stop lose for 6E

O.K. Im ready to kick some a** and get my money back! Cheers.

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  #420 (permalink)
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rocky9281 View Post
Bloom and DionysusToast,

I always wanted to ask this question to you guys.

Let’s suppose the following is a way how a professional trades:

Suppose he has accumulated 10,000 contracts at 1,120 level over a period of 2 hours. As a result of his buying, the price has been range bound for this time period in the chart. Now that he has finished buying, he is ready to markup and exit with a limit sell at 1,125. For this, he has set a limit sell order at 1,125 EVEN BEFORE he has started to throw market orders for the markup.

Before he starts markup, he calculates how many contracts he has to buy during markup. He adds up all the offers and lets say the total is 1,000 (level 1,121 to 1,124).

See the illustration:

1,125---- He set limit offer here with size 11,000 (=10,000+100+200+300+400...according to calculation)
1,124---- DOM shows 400 at ask here
1,123---- DOM shows 300 at ask here
1,122---- DOM shows 200 at ask here
1,121---- DOM shows 100 at ask here
1,120---- He accumulated 10,000 contracts here

Now let’s see how many contracts he collects at each level of mark up:

1,125---- He set limit offer here with size 11,000 (=10,000+100+200+300+400)
1,124----11,000
1,123----10,600
1,122----10,300
1,121----10,100
1,120----10,000

So when he is at 1,124, he is holding 11,000 contracts long AND he is offering 11,000 at 1,125.

Question:

How will he exit his position?
1.Will he place another market buy order of 11,000 size-to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125 level?
In other words, he is throwing market buy orders at his own limit offers!!! IS THIS POSSIBLE?

2.Will he wait for the public or other pro to hit his 11,000 offer at 1,125?
3. Something else.Please suggest other ways he may do this

IMHO, even if this becomes legal, he won't do it.Let me explain why.

He is long 11,000 at 1,124 level...................................................................................................condition 1
He is offering 11,000 at 1,125 level-to square his longs...........................................................condition 2
He throws 11,000 mkt buy against his offer (in this process,he is buying another 11,000)....condition3

So, from start of trade to end,he has:
1.bought 11,000+11,000=22,000 contracts (condition 1+condition 3)
2.he has sold 11,000 contracts (condition 2)

So at the end of trade, he is still holding 11,000 (=22,000-11,000) long,whereas, he was supposed to have zero long and zero short..

He needs someone else to hit his offer.Not himself. Isn't it?

Please tell your views

Another thing I ask here...apart from this scenario,can you people tell me any scenario/any case/any example where the pro throws market orders at his own limits? If yes, Please explain the situation in details and also tell us -how does he profits from that activity?


Last edited by rocky9281; July 31st, 2011 at 05:22 AM.
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