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Help with ADX/DMI
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Help with ADX/DMI

  #1 (permalink)
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Help with ADX/DMI

hello...

I have read the ADXellence book by Charles Schaap and loved it.

However, In his book he mentions he uses 13 for both -DMI and +DMI and for ADX he uses 8…what exactly is this? the default DMI uses 14 …and there is only one setting to change? Same with the ADX, set at 14.

What exactly was he referring to?

Also, I noticed that when the extended hours are displayed on the charts ADX/DMI changes A LOT.

Are ADX/DMI strategies followed with extended hours active or not?

I am really confused by this. Thanks.

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  #2 (permalink)
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here is a good reference to understand how the ADX and DI+/- are calculated and interpreted

Average Directional Index (ADX) [ChartSchool]

As you can see the ADX is actually calculated from the DI+/- so it would be unusual to have the DI+/- with a different parameter than the ADX... It could be done of course but you would be doing the calculation twice.

The parameter is how many previous data points are used in the calculation of the DX value of the calculation and that as you can see is further smoothed to get the ADX

The Lookback parameter (number of points used in the calculation of the DX and DI+/-) is a matter of preference and what type of trading you do.

The default is 14 as you point out...on a daily chart that would be a lookback of 14 days

As a long term trader I personally find a lookback of 30 days to be easier to read

Here is a sharpchart showing the effect of an 8, 14, 30 day lookback


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As you can see you get a smoother ADX line the farther the lookback but I suppose there is a faster response with the smaller value and I can see for intraday trading that is what is wanted ( depending on your chart setup that lookback could be 8 minutes, 40 minutes, 8 hours for a 1 minute, 5 minute or one hour chart)

Which parameter is the best is quite subjective .... I prefer the 30 day lookback as it produces a smoother easier to read/interpret chart ... as a long term trader I like that

As an intraday trader I probably would want a faster response time.... but beware... if you are using a 8 unit lookback with low volatile stock you may get funny results as it is looking back say 8 mins but the stock only trades one or two trades per 8 minutes... how that is calculated probably quite choppy.

As I said the time interval parameter is subjective...I would play with several versions and see how the charts look for a variety of chart types and pick the one you are most comfortable interpreting .

Hope this helps

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  #3 (permalink)
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thank you! this really helps.

I wonder why the author decided to use those settings.

Here is a screen shot of that page on his book

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ositokillao View Post
thank you! this really helps.

I wonder why the author decided to use those settings.

Here is a screen shot of that page on his book

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hmmm... he is not using this indicator in a standard way

here is a site that promotes his book


ADXcellence


All of those parameters are not standard ways of calculating that indicator as I have shown in my prvious post AND StockCharts.com is one of the best website charting services on the .net.

I do have a problem with this book and the writer. See all those links in the page of the link I showed you.

If you click on them you find they don't link to the ADXcellence website.... that site does not exist...I wonder why???

when I look for the writer, Dr. Charles B. Schaap Jr., I find he is founder of Tradelikeapro.com


radelikeapro.com/public/department13.cfm


But other than a comment that he wrote the book I can find nowhere on this page where he talks about using this approach. except in this one rather brief "educational" article. And if this is what you get for a description of how ADX ...God help you


Quoting 
The DMI lines represent the ongoing battle between the bulls (+DMI) and the bears (-DMI). Most indicators do not separate the two market players like the DMI lines are able to do. The most important information provided by the DMIs is "DMI Dominance." Dominance shows whether the bulls or bears are strong and in control.

In the daily chart of the AUD/USD Forex pair, notice how the first ADX peak is positive (+ADX) because the +DMI is dominant (on top), but when the ADX line falls, the DMI lines change positions (-DMI on top), and price enters a downtrend. The dominance factor helps to see the two AUD/USD short trade entries easily (arrows). In both trades, the +DMI made a high (arrows) as price retraced to the 20 EMA, but the DMI lines never crossed. As long as the lines do not cross, the -DMI remains dominant, and best odds are to go short in the direction of the trend.

the bolding is mine for emphasis

DMI (also abreviated DI and can be + or -) stands for "directional movement index". It has nothing to do with Dominance as described here IMHO. The DI+ being on top is a good thing and usually is green in color (think green side up is good) DI - on top is bearish and usually indicates a falling share price.

It is the convergence/divergence of these two lines that is important... the more they diverge the more bullish the situation becomes WHEN the DI+ is on top (if the DI- is on top then the more bearish the situation becomes).... as the DI+/- start to converge the bullish or bearish nature of the price movement becomes less and less bullish or bearish and when these lines cross and reverse then this is an important "cross" signalling a change from bull to bear or bear to bull depending on which line goes on top.

this line is almost laughable in its description

"how the first ADX peak is positive (+ADX) because the +DMI is dominant (on top)[/B], but when the ADX line falls, the DMI lines change positions (-DMI on top)"

Note in that article that the ADX has 2 peaks shown... One where the DMI+ is high and one where the DMI- is high.
the ADX is dependent on the DMI values...not the reverse as implied there... the ADX is afterall calculated from the DMI values.

What the ADX value shows you is THE STRENGTH of the current trend .... when it is lower than 25 this usually means a sideways drifting.... you don't really see that in his example because the values in the main chart goes from only bullish to bearish....there is no recovery to the bull side.

It is only a coincidence that the minimum of the ADX .... you only have to look at that chart I posted before on BAC to see the crossovers of the DI+/- do not happen always when the ADX is a minimum.

So What is the ADX doing..... well as it climbs higher and higher it means the price trend whether bull or bear is gathering strength... when the value crosses 40 one can expect the ADX to start to decline....Does that mean the Bull/Bear run is over??? Hockey Pucks NO!!! It just means the bull/bear strength is starting to weaken that is all.

You can see that in my previous chart on BAC.... and this observation applies best to the 14 day lookback parameter... the ADX is quite muted on the 30day look back and since I use this version of the indicator I don't really pay much attention to the ADX compared to the DI+/- divergence.

If you use this indicator as he describes to pick off peaks in the AUD/USA forex trading I would bet you lose a lot of money...

Anyway, to answer your question .... if you look at that chart of my previous post...the 8 day lookback gives you an enhanced ADX line...is it a good interval...I would have to do a lot of back checking to verify that if I were to change how I look at ADX.... Which I won't do

ADX is a very useful indicator... I have often thought a really good indicator would be to take the difference between the DI+/- lines and divide them by the price... in a similar way that BBwidth is calculated from Bollinger Bands. One day I might try that.

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Quoting 
It is the convergence/divergence of these two lines that is important... the more they diverge the more bullish the situation becomes WHEN the DI+ is on top (if the DI- is on top then the more bearish the situation becomes).... as the DI+/- start to converge the bullish or bearish nature of the price movement becomes less and less bullish or bearish and when these lines cross and reverse then this is an important "cross" signalling a change from bull to bear or bear to bull depending on which line goes on top.

To be fair he does talk about exactly that in his book.

He refers to these divergences as expansions and contractions.

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You mentioned that when the ADX reaches 40 it means that the trend would start to weaken. Even on a slope up? I have seen ADX go all the way to 60+

You use ADX at 30...that means you trade longer trends? For swing trades I guess the author's settings are on point then?

I have spent sometime reading on this and other indicators and this by far seems to be the best way to avoid whipsaws when trading the PSAR.

I really appreciate your responses.

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ositokillao View Post
To be fair he does talk about exactly that in his book.

You mentioned that when the ADX reaches 40 it means that the trend would start to weaken. Even on a slope up? I have seen ADX go all the way to 60+

You use ADX at 30...that means you trade longer trends? For swing trades I guess the author's settings are on point then?

I have spent sometime reading on this and other indicators and this by far seems to be the best way to avoid whipsaws when trading the PSAR.

I really appreciate your responses.

what I mean is that once the ADX climbs to 40 the strength of the of a bullish or bearish trend can be expected to start to lessen with time.... An ADX reaching 60 is not the rule... it does happen reasonably often enough and marks a very strong trend but when it gains that level you can expect the trend to become less strong.

In truth I don't put a lot of faith in the ADX value itself... it is the DI+/- values that are important to me. Specifically the values where the look back is 30 days... not 8 days or 14 days

I will explain by example of a long bull run and a long bear run

Long bull run - TESLA

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Tesla had an incredible bullish run from April 2013 to Oct 2013

All three ADX values agree the run begins about April 1..(green line)... at the dotted blue line in early Iune the 8day look back shows a faltering DI+ value threatening to cross the DI- and become bearish...the ADX in the 8 and 14 day lookback shows a declining ADX but the 30day lookback version shows still a strong ADX (plateauing) and the DI+ is still far above the DI-..... no worries for the 30 day ADX

the dotted magenta line in mid July shows a bear run starting on the 8 day lookback and a potential bearish cross on the 14 day lookback....that drop in price was a mild concern for the 30day lookback but it quickly eased as the di+/- started diverging almost immediately after that point

You have another scare of a bearish turn in mid Aug for the 8 day and 14 day lookback... could not careless in the 30 day lookback

the first concern of a end of run for the 30 day lookback is in the first week of October...it is just a warning but after such a run I think it is prudent to take profits

The 30day lookback parameter is easy to read with few false alarms... in the teal square you see a gradual decline in the ADX to reach a value of 25... the ADX found a maximum at the same time as the other 2 but is that a sell sign... I think you are foolish if you think so... these peaks in the ADX of the top two indicators are basically meaningless to me as a long term investor.

Here is the chart for a long term bear run Belllatrix Exploration - BXE


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Again all agree with the start of the bear run ... the red line.

The square between Aug 18 and Sept 1 suggests the bear run is changed to a bull run for the 8 and 14 day lookbacks...well it was for ONE DAY... the 30day lookback was not sure it was real for that whole time period.

Again the stock looked bullish near the end of November according to the 8 and 14 day lookback...the 30 day lookback said NO NO...

the 8 day lookback said we went bullish in December that was false too.

Currently the 8 day and the 14 day lookbacks say we are in a bullish mode and for 4 days it is.... the 30 day lookback says maybe

As you can see,,,the ADX does not mean a heck of a lot to me.... the DI+/- movement does and the least number of false alarms occured when I used a value of 30 day lookback (which i discovered after several years of playing around with this indicator.

That is how I use this indicator as a long term trader... I think it has merit in intraday trading but only for a really volatile stock where transactions occur constantly.

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thank you for taking the time to write this. Very informative and helpful.

I have a question...

In your BXE example, during the august/september almost change of trend ( ADX 30 ) would you had been out of that trade. I mean, looking back it is easy to see there was no real crossover but watching it live it was a hard call to make. It could have easily gone full bull and wipe out all your profits if not more.

Also, when placing stops trading the ADX30... where would you draw the line? Trading it like this would require a huge stoploss space in order not to be stopped out with hugh moves like the one during august/sept...
-------
And, why would the entry point be the red line and not the actual crossover? Is it because, just like the author explains in the book, we wait for a higher crossover peak than the previous opposite peak?

thanks



Underexposed View Post
what I mean is that once the ADX climbs to 40 the strength of the of a bullish or bearish trend can be expected to start to lessen with time.... An ADX reaching 60 is not the rule... it does happen reasonably often enough and marks a very strong trend but when it gains that level you can expect the trend to become less strong.

In truth I don't put a lot of faith in the ADX value itself... it is the DI+/- values that are important to me. Specifically the values where the look back is 30 days... not 8 days or 14 days

I will explain by example of a long bull run and a long bear run

Long bull run - TESLA

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Tesla had an incredible bullish run from April 2013 to Oct 2013

All three ADX values agree the run begins about April 1..(green line)... at the dotted blue line in early Iune the 8day look back shows a faltering DI+ value threatening to cross the DI- and become bearish...the ADX in the 8 and 14 day lookback shows a declining ADX but the 30day lookback version shows still a strong ADX (plateauing) and the DI+ is still far above the DI-..... no worries for the 30 day ADX

the dotted magenta line in mid July shows a bear run starting on the 8 day lookback and a potential bearish cross on the 14 day lookback....that drop in price was a mild concern for the 30day lookback but it quickly eased as the di+/- started diverging almost immediately after that point

You have another scare of a bearish turn in mid Aug for the 8 day and 14 day lookback... could not careless in the 30 day lookback

the first concern of a end of run for the 30 day lookback is in the first week of October...it is just a warning but after such a run I think it is prudent to take profits

The 30day lookback parameter is easy to read with few false alarms... in the teal square you see a gradual decline in the ADX to reach a value of 25... the ADX found a maximum at the same time as the other 2 but is that a sell sign... I think you are foolish if you think so... these peaks in the ADX of the top two indicators are basically meaningless to me as a long term investor.

Here is the chart for a long term bear run Belllatrix Exploration - BXE


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Again all agree with the start of the bear run ... the red line.

The square between Aug 18 and Sept 1 suggests the bear run is changed to a bull run for the 8 and 14 day lookbacks...well it was for ONE DAY... the 30day lookback was not sure it was real for that whole time period.

Again the stock looked bullish near the end of November according to the 8 and 14 day lookback...the 30 day lookback said NO NO...

the 8 day lookback said we went bullish in December that was false too.

Currently the 8 day and the 14 day lookbacks say we are in a bullish mode and for 4 days it is.... the 30 day lookback says maybe

As you can see,,,the ADX does not mean a heck of a lot to me.... the DI+/- movement does and the least number of false alarms occured when I used a value of 30 day lookback (which i discovered after several years of playing around with this indicator.

That is how I use this indicator as a long term trader... I think it has merit in intraday trading but only for a really volatile stock where transactions occur constantly.


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ositokillao View Post
thank you for taking the time to write this. Very informative and helpful.

I have a question...

In your BXE example, during the august/september almost change of trend ( ADX 30 ) would you had been out of that trade. I mean, looking back it is easy to see there was no real crossover but watching it live it was a hard call to make. It could have easily gone full bull and wipe out all your profits if not more.

Also, when placing stops trading the ADX30... where would you draw the line? Trading it like this would require a huge stop-loss space in order not to be stopped out with hugh moves like the one during august/sept...
-------
And, why would the entry point be the red line and not the actual crossover? Is it because, just like the author explains in the book, we wait for a higher crossover peak than the previous opposite peak?

thanks

You are absolutely correct...that would be a heck of a stressful time from Aug 18 to Sept 1.... In your discussion here we are relying on a single indicator and that is very risky and also is the reason why most traders fail when using indicators.

I looked at the chart again and found that Stockcharts.com has changed it slightly... early in the week I noticed there was trouble with several charts I was looking at... this was disconcerting and the first time I found bad charts on this site.... nothing much has changed as far as your question but I will redraw the chart as it should have been....

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If I were doing it though with JUST ADX30 as my indicator... I would have had to be psychic to catch that spike. But I would not have panicked and sold...I think so anyway as I do not short stocks as a firm rule.... but the principle is the same if a bullish stock too a dive very suddenly. The ADX30 DI+/- however did not cross when that jump happened... So I would have used a Limit Buy on Stop order to protect myself from disaster....NOTE: we have not lost principle with that jump.... we only lost profit.... I would have set that protection to sell if the stock hit a range from $9.00 to $9.10.... if it trips we still make a very small profit.... but as you can see the price rose no further...this is the way I take emotion out of an exit from a position.... if the stop trips fine but you give it a chance to resume making more profit


ALL indicators lie at one time or another.... but they all don't lie at the same time if you choose wisely.

That is why I don't rely on simply a single indicator... If you check out my Canadian Journal starting here you will see a discussion on what I call my "trigger chart". In reality I use 4 charts to come to a conclusion, taking a consensus of all the indicators and I use 8 indicators not counting an Ichimoku chart. I also use 3-4 overlays...not the least being Bollinger Bands. I have only really discussed the "trigger chart" though in gory detail so far

You can find that discussion here

https://futures.io/trading-journals/30636-underexposed-canadian-stock-journal-25.html#post424743

First I am going to repeat the analysis of this company focusing on that time range of interest. And show you how I would have accessed the situation

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this is my Trigger chart.... the rules are (note the parameters on the Slow Sto and MACD)

1. If Slow Sto and MACD rise and the BBWidth suddenly rises... this is a Bullish signal to buy
2. If Slow Sto and MACD fall and the BBWidth suddenly rises... this is a Bearish signal to short

now in real life I would depend on this chart to determine when to make a move and here I would have delayed a couple of days to make sure the rule #2 was completed and even then it is not a real clear signal but not bad.

3. If the Slow Sto and MACD are falling and the BBwidth falls then the Bull run MIGHT be over (we enter a consolidation phase and the next major breakout happens when the BBwidth reaches its "trigger" level... ALL three must be neg slope to signal the end)

4. If the Slow Sto and MACD are rising and the BBwidth falls then the Bear run MIGHT be over (we enter a consolidation phase and the next major breakout would happen when the BBwidth reaches its "trigger" level... ALL BBwidth must be neg slope and the other two rising to signal the end)

look at the chart on leading up to Aug 18.... the Slo Sto and MACD ARE rising.... but look at the BBwidth... it has plateaued... not fallen.... this is not a sign to cover the short.... the BBwidth remains flat as the crisis is over and you note in early Oct the sudden rise of the BBwidth a sign that the short is continuing... there is a head fake on late November... but see how quickly the MACD and Slow Sto reverse...(also note the price is above the Upper Bollie...not a great sign for a breakout.)

Now to the present... see rule # 1 beginning.... time to cover the short.

But let us look at another chart... I call this my sentiment chart again note the parameters I use


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If I were looking for an entry point JUST looking at this chart I could have probably moved it back 2-3 days... But I rely on the BBwidth breakout for most buys/sells.... this chart is used for confirmations

Look at the RSI(30).... Se how it tried to get over 50 and on July 14 it is definitely trending downward? Bearish

See the CMF(20) overlay... it is trending to below zero (though that reverses quickly) mildly bearish at the time...

The ADX(30) is full on bearish.... this confirms the decision to short made in the last chart.

On Aug 18... see the sudden climb of the RSI(30).... but it stops at 50 and declines slowly from there (very mildly bearish)

See how the sudden climb of share price the CMF(20) rises but does not get out of the mud until the end of that worrysome period and declines suddenly afterward... (very mildly bullish)

The ADX(30) DI+/- never crosses and had a bearish divergence toward the end


SO...when you assemble the evidence it is not a compelling reason to end the short... HOWEVER to protect yourself you put in a Limit Stop Buy order...just in case... You can trail it as the price falls downward if you really want to cover the short ... but as the evidence shows the short in full force I would eventually cancel the order.

I will stop here as this post is long enough for now but you see how by gathering evidence from a number of indicator sources you can arrive at an intelligent decision with a reduction of risk.

You ask very good questions...I wish you would ask them in my journals for all to benefit

I hope this answer helps you...

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  #9 (permalink)
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wow, thank you for the clear and detailed explanation.

You definitely are a natural teaching.

One more question, since you do use 30 for ADX and SlowSTO to discard normal market noise when trading longer time frames do you still go higher up in time period charts to look at an even bigger pictures? weeklies for example...

A lot of the reading I have been doing suggests going lower and higher than your trading period. Kind of like using a wide angle lens and a telephoto in photography.




Underexposed View Post
You are absolutely correct...that would be a heck of a stressful time from Aug 18 to Sept 1.... In your discussion here we are relying on a single indicator and that is very risky and also is the reason why most traders fail when using indicators.

I looked at the chart again and found that Stockcharts.com has changed it slightly... early in the week I noticed there was trouble with several charts I was looking at... this was disconcerting and the first time I found bad charts on this site.... nothing much has changed as far as your question but I will redraw the chart as it should have been....

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


If I were doing it though with JUST ADX30 as my indicator... I would have had to be psychic to catch that spike. But I would not have panicked and sold...I think so anyway as I do not short stocks as a firm rule.... but the principle is the same if a bullish stock too a dive very suddenly. The ADX30 DI+/- however did not cross when that jump happened... So I would have used a Limit Buy on Stop order to protect myself from disaster....NOTE: we have not lost principle with that jump.... we only lost profit.... I would have set that protection to sell if the stock hit a range from $9.00 to $9.10.... if it trips we still make a very small profit.... but as you can see the price rose no further...this is the way I take emotion out of an exit from a position.... if the stop trips fine but you give it a chance to resume making more profit


ALL indicators lie at one time or another.... but they all don't lie at the same time if you choose wisely.

That is why I don't rely on simply a single indicator... If you check out my Canadian Journal starting here you will see a discussion on what I call my "trigger chart". In reality I use 4 charts to come to a conclusion, taking a consensus of all the indicators and I use 8 indicators not counting an Ichimoku chart. I also use 3-4 overlays...not the least being Bollinger Bands. I have only really discussed the "trigger chart" though in gory detail so far

You can find that discussion here

https://futures.io/trading-journals/30636-underexposed-canadian-stock-journal-25.html#post424743

First I am going to repeat the analysis of this company focusing on that time range of interest. And show you how I would have accessed the situation

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


this is my Trigger chart.... the rules are (note the parameters on the Slow Sto and MACD)

1. If Slow Sto and MACD rise and the BBWidth suddenly rises... this is a Bullish signal to buy
2. If Slow Sto and MACD fall and the BBWidth suddenly rises... this is a Bearish signal to short

now in real life I would depend on this chart to determine when to make a move and here I would have delayed a couple of days to make sure the rule #2 was completed and even then it is not a real clear signal but not bad.

3. If the Slow Sto and MACD are falling and the BBwidth falls then the Bull run MIGHT be over (we enter a consolidation phase and the next major breakout happens when the BBwidth reaches its "trigger" level... ALL three must be neg slope to signal the end)

4. If the Slow Sto and MACD are rising and the BBwidth falls then the Bear run MIGHT be over (we enter a consolidation phase and the next major breakout would happen when the BBwidth reaches its "trigger" level... ALL BBwidth must be neg slope and the other two rising to signal the end)

look at the chart on leading up to Aug 18.... the Slo Sto and MACD ARE rising.... but look at the BBwidth... it has plateaued... not fallen.... this is not a sign to cover the short.... the BBwidth remains flat as the crisis is over and you note in early Oct the sudden rise of the BBwidth a sign that the short is continuing... there is a head fake on late November... but see how quickly the MACD and Slow Sto reverse...(also note the price is above the Upper Bollie...not a great sign for a breakout.)

Now to the present... see rule # 1 beginning.... time to cover the short.

But let us look at another chart... I call this my sentiment chart again note the parameters I use


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If I were looking for an entry point JUST looking at this chart I could have probably moved it back 2-3 days... But I rely on the BBwidth breakout for most buys/sells.... this chart is used for confirmations

Look at the RSI(30).... Se how it tried to get over 50 and on July 14 it is definitely trending downward? Bearish

See the CMF(20) overlay... it is trending to below zero (though that reverses quickly) mildly bearish at the time...

The ADX(30) is full on bearish.... this confirms the decision to short made in the last chart.

On Aug 18... see the sudden climb of the RSI(30).... but it stops at 50 and declines slowly from there (very mildly bearish)

See how the sudden climb of share price the CMF(20) rises but does not get out of the mud until the end of that worrysome period and declines suddenly afterward... (very mildly bullish)

The ADX(30) DI+/- never crosses and had a bearish divergence toward the end


SO...when you assemble the evidence it is not a compelling reason to end the short... HOWEVER to protect yourself you put in a Limit Stop Buy order...just in case... You can trail it as the price falls downward if you really want to cover the short ... but as the evidence shows the short in full force I would eventually cancel the order.

I will stop here as this post is long enough for now but you see how by gathering evidence from a number of indicator sources you can arrive at an intelligent decision with a reduction of risk.

You ask very good questions...I wish you would ask them in my journals for all to benefit

I hope this answer helps you...


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ositokillao View Post
wow, thank you for the clear and detailed explanation.

You definitely are a natural teaching.

One more question, since you do use 30 for ADX and SlowSTO to discard normal market noise when trading longer time frames do you still go higher up in time period charts to look at an even bigger pictures? weeklies for example...

A lot of the reading I have been doing suggests going lower and higher than your trading period. Kind of like using a wide angle lens and a telephoto in photography.

I stick mostly to daily charts...I see the benefits of weekly charts in certain situations but I find that a 6 month daily chart is all I really need. For longer term I use a P&F chart which I use to view macro resistance/support and can see several years in one chart depending on the volatility of the share price. It is important to know the absolute high's for a stock as these are powerful resistance points as traders have elephant memories for stuff like that.

I do use intra-day charts fairly often.... but not for daytrading (I find that too stressful for my liking). What I use is generally a 5 or something 2 day candlestick chart with an interval of either 5min or 15 min. I use such charts to plan an entry or exit with respect to a position.... or when I want to establish a Stop level.

There I can see mini resistance/support levels and I can try to get a stock slightly cheaper or squeeze a few more pennies from a sale.

It takes a lot of practice to learn interpretation of charts properly. the approach I use right now is the result of an evolution of over 20 years of study on my part.... That is why you see odd-ball parameters such as 30 day lookbacks. I have tested and retested these indicator combinations and charts. A lot of people think one indicator will solve all problems.... it won't but a consensus of a suite of not-the-same-look indicators works for me.

It takes time and study... every situation with a stock is different... you must assemble the clues... like solving a mystery puzzle.

You might think that having done all this work I would stand pat... but I am still open to new approaches to see if they would fit in with what I already do.

BTW...are you a photographer??? I do a fair bit of nature photography to relax.... birds, butterflies and wild flowers

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