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Paper Money realtime
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Paper Money realtime

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Colorado Springs, Colorado USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Think or Swim
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 9 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 4 given, 1 received

Paper Money realtime

Hi, I've been playing around paper trading the ES with TOS Paper Money and the chart data is obviously realtime (or within seconds of it). However, the data for order entries seems to lag realtime price action by minutes. Is this correct? The current price on the chart is different from the price in the DOM/active trader.

If this is so, are there any brokers/platforms that let you paper trade in real time with real time order entry? I know the fills will be different from real trading, but at least it will allow me to better time entries based on my strategy and system.

Thanks!

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  #2 (permalink)
Elite Member
Raleigh NC USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS, TradeStation
Broker/Data: Optimus Trading Group/Rithmic
Favorite Futures: ES, CL, BP
 
Posts: 13 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 18 given, 9 received

TOS

I really struggled for quite a while with some of the strategies in TOS. I found the Paper Trade platform essentially useless due to the timing being off. In addition, I wanted to use the platform for strategy testing. I found that this too was severely lacking.

Fortunately with some help from @kevinkdog, I moved to TradeStation and experienced a significant improvement!

Also, I am very curious about NinjaTrader as it seems very capable.

And of course, the support for NT at Big Mike's is huge.

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  #3 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Colorado Springs, Colorado USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Think or Swim
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 9 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 4 given, 1 received


I've used Ninja Trader a lot, and it's OK. It's easy to use. The good thing about TOS is, so many indicators are built into the platform, but it's fairly complicated to navigate around.

So Tradestation offers a good real time paper trade?

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  #4 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: various
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 2,388 since Jul 2012
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Werd View Post
I've used Ninja Trader a lot, and it's OK. It's easy to use. The good thing about TOS is, so many indicators are built into the platform, but it's fairly complicated to navigate around.

So Tradestation offers a good real time paper trade?


I would personally never use paper trading / demo account to "prove" a strategy works (as in, is it profitable long term).

I think those demo accounts can be useful to learn features of the platform for ordering (if you are discretionary), or to help test out your automation if you are rule based trader (nothing worse than having bad code fire off hundreds of simultaneous orders).

Used the proper way, demo accounts definitely have their uses.

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
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  #5 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
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Werd View Post
So Tradestation offers a good real time paper trade?

Put some skin in the game. Paper trading has its purpose, but don't be one of those guys who is on sim for months or years at a time, then goes live and blows up within a few weeks. Get on sim long enough to learn how to use the software and research a general methodology, then put some skin in the game even if you are risking only $5 a day on spot forex with 10 cents a pip.

The real process starts after you get off sim...

Mike

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  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
Raleigh NC USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Broker/Data: Optimus Trading Group/Rithmic
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Posts: 13 since Mar 2013
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kevinkdog View Post
I would personally never use paper trading / demo account to "prove" a strategy works (as in, is it profitable long term).

I think those demo accounts can be useful to learn features of the platform for ordering (if you are discretionary), or to help test out your automation if you are rule based trader (nothing worse than having bad code fire off hundreds of simultaneous orders).

Used the proper way, demo accounts definitely have their uses.

Agreed! I initially tried testing strategies with a demo account but found, at least for me, to be the wrong approach to take.

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  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Dartmouth NS
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MC, MC.Net, NT, TWS
Broker/Data: IB / IQFeed / Kids
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bnichols's Avatar
 
Posts: 638 since Feb 2010
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I have a son who confessed he was trading a $3 account, ZARJPY spot. There are brokers who cater to everyone.

Yes--got a kick in the ass and some cash. But the bottom line is even if paper does corrupt it's better than spending mortgage money until you learn how to trade.

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  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
Broker/Data: AMP/wCQG, TDA
Favorite Futures: CL,YM
 
Posts: 2,027 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,211 given, 1,551 received

Good it was only $3! maybe he could learn good price action trading by cents.

Better than this guy trading futures:

American Greed All Interest No Return - YouTube

Losing millions a day!

American Greed All Interest No Return - YouTube

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  #9 (permalink)
Knowledge Seeker
Dubai, UAE
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, TradeStation
Broker/Data: OX, TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Stocks & Basic Options
 
RedK's Avatar
 
Posts: 171 since May 2012
Thanks: 44 given, 138 received

papermoney realtime in ToS is possible.. they set that for your profile at their end....need to contact support via chat.. you may or may not get it though.. depends on your real account status..

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  #10 (permalink)
Patient Discipline
Bellingham, WA USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT
Broker/Data: Mirus (Broker), Continuum (Data), Dorman (Clearing)
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
aventeren's Avatar
 
Posts: 202 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 426 given, 191 received

Paper Trading in TOS: A Possible Approach


Howdy; just so that you are aware, paper trading delays the Active Trader prices by some amount of time, while the chart data is real time. Therefore, paper trading with the Active Trader in TOS is kinda weird, as you can practice placing your order (including brackets if you wants), but I would NOT recommend simply clicking the "Join the Ask" of "Buy the Bid" etc buttons, because these buttons grab their price info from the Active Trader (delayed) prices rather than the real time chart prices. However, the preceding presupposes that you prefer to place your trade based on the chart (live) prices as opposed to the Active Trader (delayed) prices.

I've found that I have to quick check what the chart price is, then I enter the trade (I use a bracket) within Active Trader by simply clicking in the "Bid Size" (if you're going long) or the "Ask Size" (if you're going short) on the price that you want the trade to show up on the chart (real time pricing).

This can be a pain in the butt, because in order to "lock" the Active Trader from jumping around the delayed price, you have to hover over the Bid Size or Ask Size column to temporarily halt the Active Trader prices from jumping around on you. Again, this is a pain in the butt because the Active Trader is jumping around on delayed prices rather than the real time prices that you are likely going to be trying to practice on.

You can then manage your trades from either the chart or Active Trader, as your bracket orders (if you use them) will be executed in real time using the chart price data and not the Active Trader delayed data.

I just recently came up this learning curve, and hopefully the above will help the new TOSwimmers get more bang for their buck during paper trading.

Let me know if you have any questions...I can't say I'll have an answer, but if I don't know the answer to your question, maybe it will force me to continue learning about how to better use the damn platform.

Good luck!

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